The site is unviewable on a 4k monitor, giant red bar goes across the screen, scrolls to white, and nothing. Took a while to figure that out...
Famo.us open to everyone
111–120 of 144 posts
Re: Famo.us open to everyone
#112First famo.us employee here, want to give people some food for thought to consider as you gripe about things like zoom and and the scrollbar (rightfully so). Some of the more controversial points, especially those regarding accessibility and progressive enhancement, made below are my own. I think I'm the only person at the company that browses the web with JavaScript disabled, so I know how broken the original world…
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Re: Famo.us open to everyone
#113First famo.us employee here, want to give people some food for thought to consider as you gripe about things like zoom and and the scrollbar (rightfully so). Some of the more controversial points, especially those regarding accessibility and progressive enhancement, made below are my own. I think I'm the only person at the company that browses the web with JavaScript disabled, so I know how broken the original world…
> A scroller at is essential is a mathematical set with a curser and that all scrolling does (whether by mouse or keyboard)
Well, by mouse anyway
Re: Famo.us open to everyone
#11495% of the negativity on this thread revolves around the obviously sub-par scrolling behavior. I think that if you look past the ScrollView problems there is a lot of great innovation in this framework. I'm looking forward to their continued work. I've been particularly impressed with the new support for Angular: http://famo.us/angular As a side note, that page is a good example of famous being used with NORMAL scrol…
I'm trying to keep an open mind, and I feel really bad for the developers to get so much bad or even downright hostile feedback.
But to me the terrible scrollbar, and the janky behavior on my Nexus 4 doesn't just frustrate me; it makes me seriously doubt the value of the whole project.
If a group of people spend a very long time working on something, yet somehow can't figure out that releasing it with such basic, huge flaws is a bad idea, it signals to me that something is fundamentally wrong with the whole project. I think they should sit down and rethink what they're doing.
That said, after my initial frustrations I decided to give the thing another look, and there's definitely some good stuff there. Maybe this could be really great some day.
Re: Famo.us open to everyone
#115Scroll from the top to the bottom (or vice versa) really hard. Watch the "3d layout engine" flip out thoroughly (tested only on chrome stable on darwin)
Apart from the slow pace at which the page scrolls back, the fact when it's doing so you cannot scroll up anymore (or down when you're at the bottom of the page) annoys me even more. What Apple did, making scrolling behave like a sheet of paper confirmed using a rubber band, seems more natural than what this "3d layout engine" is doing. Giving it even more thought, it makes sense that even on a non-scrollable page sc…
I also noticed that on my phone (Nexus 4) sometimes the scrolling just keeps going. I'm not sure that's how they meant it to behave, but even if it is, it's not great.
Re: Famo.us open to everyone
#116What other programming languages do you plan to support?
Re: Famo.us open to everyone
#117I got a look at this during the "Secret Beta". All in all, cool idea with using the 3d matrix transform, felt very unfinished though. I also felt that the coding style was very verbose with plenty of needless inheritance tricks, etc. They have a huge physics library and a bunch of other stuff that is not necessary for 99% of apps. There was one demo for a basic app, and like 100 demos of various bouncing balls and sp…
As an employee I have mixed feelings here. For a long time (I've been with the company for 2 years), I was the main person at the company arguing for the basics necessary for all apps like you suggest we should have done. However, looking at this from the inside my view has changed to where the approach we're taking probably makes the most sense long term even though it may not be immediately obvious. First, the goal…
The problem with native scrolling is that I can't effectively read the documentation on the website without it.
Re: Famo.us open to everyone
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find myself agreeing with most of what you wrote, and yet, it doesn't matter. You keep sabotaging yourselves. Does no-one do QA? Do you not have a Steve Jobs-esque character who has taste and an eye for detail and who can look at this stuff the way your users will? Because such a person would've looked at this and Noped the fuck out of there, cancelled whatever PR you had planned, and put everyone around a table sa…
What's the lesser of two evils? 1) Launch an imperfect product that works well for some use cases; or 2) Perfect everything and be ridiculed as vaporware I wish we were Apple and had $159 billion in cash reserves. We're not though and have to operate within different constraints that don't afford us the same luxuries. You can't really compare Apples to Famo.uses
I'm not sure 'make scrolling (a feature the browser does natively) work on desktop' = "perfect everything"... I can perfect scrolling by creating a blank html page.
Re: Famo.us open to everyone
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know why but it seems to be perfectly acceptable to break the scrollbar these days.
I don't think it is. Famous is the first I've seen to complement reimplement (and fuck up) something as fundamental as scrolling.
What about the countless sites that have infinite scrolling (Facebook for example)? It's not as bad as Famous but still breaks it in my opinion.
Re: Famo.us open to everyone
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thinking that native scroll is not important puts you outside of the average. That's fine -great, even. It is where the innovators are. But you need to prove your point, and so far you have not. That's why an opinion like yours has detractors.
Fair enough. That's a very valid point. With that in mind, what would you have to see to be convinced that native scrolling is not as important as many people claim it is? Also, what do you think it would take to convince many of those that hold native scroll in high regard that maybe it's not as deserving of the pedestal upon which it stands? Dead serious here, besides meeting the definition of "fitness for use" by…
> With that in mind, what would you have to see to be convinced that native scrolling is not as important as many people claim it is?
Something that actually is provides basic scrolling function effectively that replaces native scrolling -- as opposed to something that stutters badly on current, top-of-the-line mobile platforms, performs poorly (and, with many expected interaction methods, doesn't work at all) on desktop, etc.
If you are going to convince people to buy into your reinvention of the wheel, it better at least roll properly.
Native scrolling isn't actually important -- what is important is access to content that meets expectations either because it works as expected from past experiences or because there are clear affordances that make the transition easy. Native scrolling is an easy way to achieve that because users of a platform are almost certainly familiar with the platforms scrolling behavior, and every major platform has native scrolling that works acceptably in virtually all reasonable circumstances.
If I have scrolling content with no scrollbar, that's bad.
If I have a scrollbar I can't interact with as expected and nothing that clues me into how I should interact with it, that's bad.
If, on desktop, I can't scroll with the keyboard, that's bad.
If scrolling is erratic and jumpy on any platform, that's bad.
If content obviously extends past the viewport and there is no obvious way to scroll the viewport at all (as happens horizontally on mobile with the Famo.us website), that's bad.