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I'm About as Good as Dead: The End of Xah Lee

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Re: I'm About as Good as Dead: The End of Xah Lee

#191

Post by ChuckMcM »

nabla9 wrote: post #84
nkozyra wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is he a particularly noted person? Maybe just in the emacs community? I don't know who he is and that resume is pretty skimpy. It seems that his biggest need right now is self-presentation and that's a pretty tough thing to acquire on short notice. I'd also say there would likely be way more opportunities for someone of his skillset outside of the valley, where the skimpy resume probably looks even skimpier by compar…

He is known as annoying Usenet troll by many. I don't classify him as pure troll, however. He don't troll for the sake of trolling and he can be helpful. He is very opinionated and argumentative and don't adjust his thinking very well. He might have mood disorder. http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/Personal_dir/xah.html

Yup. I suspect this is the core of his incompatibility with nominal employment in the tech space.

I agree with others that perhaps a documentation role on an open source project would be something that would be in demand, but having the tech writer telling the developers they are doing it wrong is not a good recipe for success (and that seems to be a real possibility here).

Re: I'm About as Good as Dead: The End of Xah Lee

#192

Post by staircasebug »

throwaway283719 wrote: post #26

He could start by rewriting his resume. This in particular stands out - Accomplishment highlights: * Autodidact. High school dropout. No degree. To almost any employer, that is not an accomplishment, much less a highlight! If you're a high school dropout who is very accomplished since then, just silently drop any mention of your education from your resume. Everyone will assume that you left it off because it's irrele…

From a certain perspective, one could view those as accomplishments in relation to all he has learned/accomplished and contributed within the coding community.

Re: I'm About as Good as Dead: The End of Xah Lee

#193

Post by mercer »

overgard wrote: post #164
mercer wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not like being socially awkward has to be an innate thing; they're called social skills for a reason, you can learn them. It doesn't have to be, true. But in the same way that a tone-deaf or rhythmically-challenged individual can probably never be even a decent musician, there are plenty of people who can probably never become 'socially skilled'. Consider autism, for example (in all it's degrees), and also the…

So your post kind of resonates with me, but if I were to boil it down I think your point is "Smart people frequently do dumb things, but that doesn't mean they're not smart". Agreed! I just think a lot of what we call social skills really comes down to, frankly, giving a shit about the person in front of you. For exceptionally smart people sometimes this is hard. Interacting with average people can be mind numbing. I…

> I just think a lot of what we call social skills really comes down to, frankly, giving a shit about the person in front of you.

Very true. But first of all I'd argue that 'giving a shit' in itself is a skill. We are, to a large degree, taught to be nice. Watching the average eight-year-old in a school yard is a clear example of that. They're practically psychopathic: developed enough to understand the concept of 'the other', but they haven't necessarily learned how to empathize.

I suspect there's a strong correlation between being socially outcast or awkward (whether biological, developmental or contextual in nature) and taking up programming and computers as a hobby. For me that was the case, and for most geeks I know it was too. In fact, the very definition of a nerd is someone who focuses unusually a lot on one thing, at the detriment of other things (usually social).

Plus, it's a relatively recent development that 'social' kids are also into computers, on account of wanting to make games, or emulating 'skater geeks' like Kevin Rose. I still remember that it was rather 'uncool' to be in chat rooms, for example. Or reddit being the nerd version of digg.

And finally, people have a tendency to conform their views to their experiences (more than the other way around, I suspect). So it kind of makes sense that a person with few friends, or a history of no partners, will conclude that 'people are shit'. Misanthropy is usually not innate. I've met a shocking amount of people who are eerily similar in their deeply negative view of society with no real experience of friendship. Some of them, in their late twenties or thirties, seem beyond help.

Re: I'm About as Good as Dead: The End of Xah Lee

#194

Post by mercer »

test1235 wrote: post #136
overgard wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you're saying, but I also tend to think: if they're so smart, why not learn some social skills? It's not like being socially awkward has to be an innate thing; they're called social skills for a reason, you can learn them. Many people were once socially awkward, and then fixed it. It's not particularly fair, but social awkwardness does tend to send a signal about what people value. And what a socially awkw…

I'm inclined towards this thinking also. Not learning crucial skills is just lazy and self-centred. I've met amazing devs with no social skills because they didn't want to put effort into learning anything except what they enjoyed. The world doesn't owe you anything - it's up to yourself to do your best to acquire what you want. You don't get what you want just because in your own opinion, you deem yourself to be des…

I've argued against your point in these comments, but I must say I also agree. Some of the most unpleasant people I've met were a toxic combination of intelligence, skill, and a total lack of empathy. Intensely judgmental, misogynistic, vaguely racist, a chip on their shoulders, and no sense of humor (big red flag for me, usually).

But these, I believe, are relatively rare. I like to believe so anyways, and I try to give nasty people the benefit of the doubt. Because this: http://www.ic.sunysb.edu/Clubs/buddhism/story/oldmanscorpion....

Re: I'm About as Good as Dead: The End of Xah Lee

#195

Post by cmiles74 »

DanBC wrote: post #178
cmiles74 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He feels confident that he doesn't owe the IRS taxes since he has never earned sufficient money to file (less thank $1,000). It turns out, according to the present rules, that he is incorrect: self employed and earning more than $400 a year requires filing income tax.[1] It does not appear that he is purposely evading taxes. I agree that it is his fault that the IRS is pursuing him, on the other hand it seems pointle…

He says that he has earnt less than $1000 per year. Later on he says his monthly rent is $1300 per month. I'm not sure how to resolve that.

That's a good point, I took it to mean that he's been slowly draining savings and his 401k.

Re: I'm About as Good as Dead: The End of Xah Lee

#197

Post by mercer »

overgard wrote: post #152
colomon wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're absolutely right that social skills can be learned. But note that they can be massively harder for some people to learn than others. Social skills that come almost automatically to your average person can be a lot of a work for someone with Asperger's to learn, for instance.

Well, I'm not trying to pick on people with neurological disorders. For those people I'm sure it's an incredible struggle. I'm mostly thinking of average people that just aren't willing to put forth the effort.

But how can you tell?

Re: I'm About as Good as Dead: The End of Xah Lee

#198

Post by [deleted] »

nkozyra wrote: post #65
Singletoned wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's certainly 'notorious' in certain circles. He used to be considered a troll in certain newsgroups, because he's very argumentative. I think he is in some ways the prototypical hacker. He's very good at what he does, but he struggles to do anything with financial value, and he's got very bad interpersonal skills. He's done quite a lot of Emacs work, particularly around trying to make it easier to work with. His wo…

Ah, thanks. I think there's a lot of room for boisterous, outspoken and even aggressive developers, but you really gotta prove you have the chops to earn that. I'd agree with your assessment that interpersonal skills are the issue (in fact he agrees, too) and that's not something you can fix overnight. I really think the best situation for this guy is to get out of the valley for a bit, get a job doing some very focu…

[deleted]

Re: I'm About as Good as Dead: The End of Xah Lee

#199

Post by chaired »

rafekett wrote: post #176

Xah needs to seek help for his mental illness. Look at his posts on comp.lang.emacs for evidence. He's been spending all these years on $3 a day trying to figure out a more "ergonomic" keyboard for emacs, but many of his suggestions are really just based on what he wants and are less ergonomic than standard emacs. EDIT: comp.lang.emacs doesn't exist, it's been many years. gnu.emacs.BLAH

Some find this type of labeling helpful. Some find it unhelpful. At any rate, we should probably tread carefully.

People with mental illness need jobs as much as, if not more than, those who pass for normal. I know. I have suffered from serious mental issues for 18 years. In that same time, I have enjoyed a long, exciting, and storied career; and I know that my employers have been grateful.

Re: I'm About as Good as Dead: The End of Xah Lee

#200

Post by jqm »

This kind of case is why I don't think guaranteed income will work. Some people won't even be able to manage that money. We have to find a way to insure people have the basics without money (in their hands anyway). The salvation army type/soup kitchen programs aren't it. No dignity, 5000 other guys (a significant percentage of which would slit your throat for a rock), an underlying "join the cult theme".... no, that environment doesn't make things better. Basic privacy and dignity are needs too. And if someone is going to become productive they need access to basic tools like a computer also. If people like Lee could forget about money and work on what they love I think the world would have more for it. Or else a lot more trolling. IDK...

I think what we are seeing here is similar to heroin addiction or alcoholism. But this is an internet 24-7/ trolling rush/ porn addiction that makes it hard to live in the real world. I bet his isn't the only case either. I recommend a three month cold turkey session in the woods of Canada this summer. No net. Up at dawn chopping wood. Real face to face interaction most of the day. Fix this poor fellow right up and give him a new lease on life. I do feel for his case... in the same way someone who drinks a little more than they should might feel for homeless drunk passed out on the sidewalk.

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