Live data from Hacker News

Can This Web Be Saved? Mozilla Accepts DRM, and We All Lose

eff.org

131–140 of 374 posts

Re: Can This Web Be Saved? Mozilla Accepts DRM, and We All Lose

#131

Maybe it can be disassembled? Like it what was done with some proprietary blobs of Linux kernel.

Capturing, decompiling the code will give you the routes / hardware key access points which you can then manipulate by pretending to be whatever they expect, et voila assuming you can decompile the transcoded information being passed along.

Re: Can This Web Be Saved? Mozilla Accepts DRM, and We All Lose

#132
post #9

Mozilla had to be dragged into this acceptance kicking and screaming (metaphorically). They were faced with a hard choice, Not implement EME (HTML5 DRM) and risk users moving to other browsers (user loss) or implement EME and risk looking like they are contradicting their core mission (trust loss). They figured a little loss of trust is worth keeping most of the users on the Mozilla platform - which in my view is the…

Can't addons be used to supplement the missing features?

Re: Can This Web Be Saved? Mozilla Accepts DRM, and We All Lose

#133
DRM is a fantasy that uninformed media executives cling onto with a dream that it will put the genie back in the bottle. It's sad to see this stuff but totally understandable considering the divide between the technology people who understand the reality and the people in charge of dreaming of a fantasy that gets them back to the '80s..

Yes I know.. I was an executive as a major record label, trust me it's hard to be on both sides of this argument and it's not as simple as everyone makes it out to be...

I can't explain how many times I tried to help executives understand that the path between the media to the human eye or ear was vulnerable to so many attacks it clearly was a fruitless goal to protect media in that way. They hear some bright young person tell them they can protect their media like it was in the good 'ole days and they have the need to believe because without that belief they are out of a job..

And artists are on their own to figure out how to make money on their work...

Re: Can This Web Be Saved? Mozilla Accepts DRM, and We All Lose

#136
post #89
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this is a rationalization. The fact that a market is free doesn't mean that producers can't sell on the terms they want. There is DRM-free content, just not the content you want. Content creators choose to use DRM because very few users object to it, and I bet with modern DRM most don't even know it exists. That's a perfectly functional free market. Its like saying that there isn't a functional free marke…

> The fact that a market is free doesn't mean that producers can't sell on the terms they want. Copyright laws stand in the way of a free market. If there was a free market anybody could make a copy of some content and sell it (perhaps they would have to pay parts of the profit to the original owners, but nevertheless anybody would basically allowed to sell what they want: that's what a free market is about).

Free market != anarchy. Copyright doesn't stand in the way of a free market any more than the property rights that keep me from hacking into Facebook and creating a competitor with its database.

Re: Can This Web Be Saved? Mozilla Accepts DRM, and We All Lose

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of replacing Flash with HTML5 video is to get rid of buggy third party plugins that crash all the time and have shitty cross-platform support. If HTML5 video is going to rely on buggy third party DRM plugins, we lose the benefit that was the whole point of HTML5 video.

I run my browsers without Flash in order to avoid Adobe's exploit-du-jour crapware. This means, for example, that I don't run Chrome. If this binary blob from Adobe isn't presented with a similar UI as regular "plugins" (that the user can disable or uninstall), then I will look into writing an extension to disable it, or perhaps rely on a Firefox fork to give me a Flash-lite(tm) free browser.

You can disable Flash from chrome://plugins

Re: Can This Web Be Saved? Mozilla Accepts DRM, and We All Lose

#138
There are so many people here claiming this is the wrong choice, and yet I wonder what percentage of the commenters here are using chrome? By most sources I've seen, Chrome has 2x the marketshare, and actively pushed FOR EME. Perhaps if FF had Chrome's current marketshare, they would have been in a position to say no, but its the users who made that impossible. Mozilla should be commended for fighting as far as they did. And if you don't like this decision, make sure you switch off chrome before commenting.

Re: Can This Web Be Saved? Mozilla Accepts DRM, and We All Lose

#139

This is most certainly the wrong choice, but people need to understand they essentially had no choice. Their options were rather limited: Option 1) Stick to your laurels and refuse to implement DRM. Other browser vendors implement DRM, certain parts of the web become inaccessible via Firefox as DRM is implemented into more and more web services (think Youtube, Vimeo, Netflix, Hulu). Firefox's lack of DRM means its us…

> Firefox's lack of DRM means its users are being disadvantaged.

Firefox's lack of DRM would mean that users are being encouraged to used the services not encumbered with this nonsense, instead of all gravitating to whichever DRM service is most popular.

Mozilla supporting DRM is a failure because of Metcalfe's Law[1]. By giving access to the network of people using DRM to their n users, they support that network by O(n^2) and make it that much harder to dislodge in the future.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe%27s_law

Re: Can This Web Be Saved? Mozilla Accepts DRM, and We All Lose

#140
post #45
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, they are using "their power to influence the development of the open web" by supporting DRM. What's the point in having this power if you immediately cave?

Ding ding ding! You've hit the nail on the head. Mozilla has no real power over the web. Google, Microsoft, and Apple have the power (look at the names associated with EME DRM - what a surprise). Mozilla has an illusion of power, which is tolerated by the other actors because it makes everyone happy. But no one should mistake it for real leverage.

> Mozilla has no real power over the web. Google, Microsoft, and Apple have the power (look at the names associated with EME DRM - what a surprise).

That's not right either. It's the users that have the power. Users can pick which browsers they use and which sites they visit.

There was essentially no boycott of EME-shipping browsers (Chrome and Internet Explorer). That shows that we, the people on the internet, did not care enough to fight EME.

EME isn't fought by talking about it and hoping someone like Mozilla will kill it. We would have had to actually do something ourselves, and a successful boycott of Chrome and Internet Explorer would have killed EME very effectively.

Post reply on HN