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All the Western companies you’d have to combine to get something like Alibaba

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Re: All the Western companies you’d have to combine to get something like Alibaba

#101

Post by xrjn »

oelmekki wrote: post #91

Although it's not directly related to the tech side, I would love to have your feedback on alibaba. It suddenly appeared in my search results last month when looking to buy something, with a lot of results - from alibaba itself and from aliexpress. As with any website I don't know of, I queried trustpilot for them. It's not good at all[1][2]. Most reviews talk about scams. We may praise them for being a very tech hea…

Those two sites are not meant for inexperienced people. You can certainly find a scams there, but they're fairly easy to spot: unbelievable prices, payment only by western union, sellers with no/little reputation...

Personally, I've mostly had mostly good experiences with those two sites - almost all of the items I ordered arrived and worked well. The two exceptions was when I bought a very low price product, but I got a refund for it, and another example was when I bought a large lot of items at almost a 5th of their price, and paid by Western Union... it was my fault for not knowing better.

Re: All the Western companies you’d have to combine to get something like Alibaba

#102

Post by fspeech »

Tloewald wrote: post #99
fspeech wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Also, China doesn't support dual citizenship like the states does. So becoming a Chinese citizen means renouncing your US citizenship." That is incorrect. Becoming a US citizen means renouncing your native citizenship as well. The only exception is if you were born into dual citizenships in which case you don't need naturalization at all.

The United States allows dual citizenship if you naturalize to a non-hostile foreign country without renouncing your US citizenship, but only because of a supreme court decision over US citizens who became Israel citizens. I am dual US/Australian via this route.

What do you make of the naturalization oath? Namely: "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; ..." It doesn't have anything to do with which country you are from.

Re: All the Western companies you’d have to combine to get something like Alibaba

#103

Post by jriggs »

mikeevans wrote: post #34
notatoad wrote: post #10

online payments ---- google wallet cloud services ---- google cloud platform mobile apps ---- google play mobile OS ---- android maps and nav ---- google maps physical retail ---- ? no google product shopping deals ---- google offers cloud storage ---- google drive instant messaging ---- google hangouts car service ---- uber (via google ventures) c2c ecommerce ---- ? no google product travel booking ---- google fligh…

For e-learning, there's Google Helpouts. https://helpouts.google.com/

Google is extremely invested in education, recently they announced Google Apps for eductation: http://www.google.com/enterprise/apps/education/

They also contributed a pile of money to EdX. Those are 2 examples off the top of my head

Re: All the Western companies you’d have to combine to get something like Alibaba

#104

Post by seanmcdirmid »

fspeech wrote: post #102
Tloewald wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States allows dual citizenship if you naturalize to a non-hostile foreign country without renouncing your US citizenship, but only because of a supreme court decision over US citizens who became Israel citizens. I am dual US/Australian via this route.

What do you make of the naturalization oath? Namely: "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; ..." It doesn't have anything to do with which country you are from.

In general, supreme court > oath writers.

Re: All the Western companies you’d have to combine to get something like Alibaba

#105

Post by fspeech »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #104
fspeech wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you make of the naturalization oath? Namely: "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; ..." It doesn't have anything to do with which country you are from.

In general, supreme court > oath writers.

I think there is a certain amount of cross-talk here. I get what you are saying about the oath but it is administered by Federal court judges so it is apparently not in conflict with the Supreme Court ruling. Secondly it is not what the Supreme Court said that matters here. By asking the naturalized citizens to take the oath it is entirely reasonable that their native governments construe the action as renouncing their original citizenship. It is literally what the oath says. I get that with the Supreme Court ruling it is possible for American citizens to obtain another citizenship without losing their US citizenship. I think that is a good thing in this increasingly globalized world and hopefully one day national borders will mean a lot less as it is in Europe today. However we were discussing what you said: "So becoming a Chinese citizen means renouncing your US citizenship." Does China actually enforce it by demanding proof or also just make you take an oath? I understand there may be little data to tell at this point. And when I said that US does the same I meant that the US make you take the oath to renounce your native citizenship.

Re: All the Western companies you’d have to combine to get something like Alibaba

#106

Post by seanmcdirmid »

fspeech wrote: post #105
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general, supreme court > oath writers.

I think there is a certain amount of cross-talk here. I get what you are saying about the oath but it is administered by Federal court judges so it is apparently not in conflict with the Supreme Court ruling. Secondly it is not what the Supreme Court said that matters here. By asking the naturalized citizens to take the oath it is entirely reasonable that their native governments construe the action as renouncing the…

US is a country ruled strictly by law. Sign any contract, or take any oath, cannot discharge rights given to is by law. In the us, this means dual citizenship is accepted and even respected even if the politicians wished otherwise...they cannot deny constitutional rights without changing the constitution. Contrast this with China's "freedom of speech" that is enshrined in its constitution but not respected by the CCP, who don't need to grant those rights to the people since there is no check on their power in the Chinese system.

No one has naturalized into Chinese citizenship, but china has consistently refused to acknowledge dual citizenship for anyone younger than 18 or not born into it. It has nothing to do with oaths.

Re: All the Western companies you’d have to combine to get something like Alibaba

#107

Post by fspeech »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #106
fspeech wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a certain amount of cross-talk here. I get what you are saying about the oath but it is administered by Federal court judges so it is apparently not in conflict with the Supreme Court ruling. Secondly it is not what the Supreme Court said that matters here. By asking the naturalized citizens to take the oath it is entirely reasonable that their native governments construe the action as renouncing the…

US is a country ruled strictly by law. Sign any contract, or take any oath, cannot discharge rights given to is by law. In the us, this means dual citizenship is accepted and even respected even if the politicians wished otherwise...they cannot deny constitutional rights without changing the constitution. Contrast this with China's "freedom of speech" that is enshrined in its constitution but not respected by the CCP…

I was saying that US requires people who naturalize into US citizenship to take an oath to renounce their original citizenship. This is just a fact and the Supreme Court did not say this is unconstitutional.

Plenty of people have been naturalized into Chinese citizenship, at least in Hongkong. Here is the requirement http://www.gov.hk/en/residents/immigration/chinese/naturalis... and I do see that it requires abandonment of foreign citizenship although it does not say what level of documentation is needed, if any. If it were an oath then it would be symmetric with US. With China ruled by the CCP it is also understandable that the demand for naturalization may not be that high in the first place.

Re: All the Western companies you’d have to combine to get something like Alibaba

#108

Post by fspeech »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #106
fspeech wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a certain amount of cross-talk here. I get what you are saying about the oath but it is administered by Federal court judges so it is apparently not in conflict with the Supreme Court ruling. Secondly it is not what the Supreme Court said that matters here. By asking the naturalized citizens to take the oath it is entirely reasonable that their native governments construe the action as renouncing the…

US is a country ruled strictly by law. Sign any contract, or take any oath, cannot discharge rights given to is by law. In the us, this means dual citizenship is accepted and even respected even if the politicians wished otherwise...they cannot deny constitutional rights without changing the constitution. Contrast this with China's "freedom of speech" that is enshrined in its constitution but not respected by the CCP…

Also if you read the NPCSC's interpretation of the nationality law it would appear that the emphasis is very much on non-recognition of consular access rights. They allow Hongkong residents to hold British passports for overseas travels but do not recognize the passports or consular access rights when they are inside China (including Hongkong).

Re: All the Western companies you’d have to combine to get something like Alibaba

#109

Post by Tloewald »

fspeech wrote: post #102
Tloewald wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States allows dual citizenship if you naturalize to a non-hostile foreign country without renouncing your US citizenship, but only because of a supreme court decision over US citizens who became Israel citizens. I am dual US/Australian via this route.

What do you make of the naturalization oath? Namely: "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; ..." It doesn't have anything to do with which country you are from.

I didn't naturalize to the US, I naturalized to Australia, so I never swore that oath. I was born in the US.
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