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Burying the URL

allenpike.com

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Re: Burying the URL

#371
Actually teaching people the meaning of URL never been a big issue to me : they’ve always been able to understand easily by analogy with their home address that a page needs to live at a precise location.

In fact even the naming of a file and the folder structure never been an issue to teach.

Hidding an address does look like spam, not honest, cheating by design because the user doesn't know where s/he is without digging (clicking/taping once or more).

As this information was there effortless, if it become an effort to find out, then people are not going to do it.

One may think that information was therefore not needed on the first place.

One may think twice and say : an information visible effortless might be needed because of its effortless nature. It’s there and part of the context we use things. By example it’s needed to reassure the usage of something.

Why not starting to hide signs on the roads then. After all driverless cars don’t really need them and for everybody they distract the attention of the drivers.

Re: Burying the URL

#372
post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a format, a website; arxiv.org.

You wrote: "I can read papers from 12 different journals and they're all in the same format there." Suggesting some file format, or perhaps presentation format.

ArXiV files are downloaded in either .PDF or maybe .HTML. In my subfield (computer vision), most of the action happens in actual journals/conferences for now, so when authors submit to ArXiV, they submit .PDFs because the work usually was also intended to appear somewhere else.

ArXiV does not specify a style guide so you get this weird mix of IEEE/PAMI/single-column/double-column, but that's not really a detrement to its readability since journals wouldn't usually pick an unreadable style anyway.

Re: Burying the URL

#373
post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wrote: "I can read papers from 12 different journals and they're all in the same format there." Suggesting some file format, or perhaps presentation format.

ArXiV files are downloaded in either .PDF or maybe .HTML. In my subfield (computer vision), most of the action happens in actual journals/conferences for now, so when authors submit to ArXiV, they submit .PDFs because the work usually was also intended to appear somewhere else. ArXiV does not specify a style guide so you get this weird mix of IEEE/PAMI/single-column/double-column, but that's not really a detrement to…

Thanks, though I'll note you weren't who I was asking the question of ;-)

I figured the format was likely "academic articles, mostly prepared with LaTeX, published as PDFs", but the commenter was being less than clear, even on reiteration.

Re: Burying the URL

#374

This is a new UI experiment that's deployed to a small fraction of users. We're looking at a few key metrics to see if this change is a net positive for Chrome users. (I imagine it may help defend against phishing). My personal opinion is that it's a very bad change and runs anti-thetical to Chrome's goals. I hope the data backs that up as well. But regardless, this change is far from shipping as the new default beha…

TL;DR: URLs matter; we as developers need to make them relevant again; hiding them is a terrible idea

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I guess this goes to the app-ification of the web.

There's a dangerous slippery slope here. If we're OK with this happening, are we then OK with getting rid of that domain further down the line? What about routing all traffic through Google first so it can check if a URL is "safe" or not. The whole thing strikes me as creating a more locked-down web.

URLs and View-Source are fundamental elements of the vision Tim Berners-Lee. WorldWideWeb, the first web browser had it front and center. Mosaic moved it to the top, where we most know the URL scheme to exist. Safari moved the URL box to the same line as other navigation (what is now more common). Every step of the way, the scheme has been getting reduced for usability purpose.

But the problem with that approach is that it communicates that the web is "hard" instead of educating users in how to understand it and how to build on it.

And we, as technical people have not helped much here. Look at the URL up here. Yes, we know that it's hacker news but what does the ID mean? It has no semantic meaning to a user (unless you know that this is the 7678580th story on HN and care about that). A nice URL would be something like http://hackernews.com/story/google-experiments-with-URLs

Wordpress actually does this by default, even adding a date scheme to it, which makes the web a better place:

http://site.com/year/month/day/story-title-can-go-here is an easy to read URL and yes it's a pain to code properly when you're dealing with a dynamic site but hey it's our jobs to make sure we do things that are beautiful for users.

So maybe this is a wake up call.

Re: Burying the URL

#375

I somewhat expected this, given the trend of where things seem to be heading with software these days. In the name of "usability" configuration is removed, UIs are "simplified", and gradually the choice and freedom of the user is degraded. Opportunities to make mistakes and learn from them, or to explore and discover, a chance for users to grow . Dumbing-down software only encourages more of the same. The "senior try…

For kicks, try replacing "software" with "automobiles" in your paragraph. The innards of a modern car are incomprehensible to all but "the few elite", and its interface goes a long way to hide all that complexity. I only have the vaguest idea how it works, and am perfectly happy to outsource its maintenance to professional mechanics, because all I care about is that it works . This should apply to computers. My famil…

[deleted]

Re: Burying the URL

#376

I somewhat expected this, given the trend of where things seem to be heading with software these days. In the name of "usability" configuration is removed, UIs are "simplified", and gradually the choice and freedom of the user is degraded. Opportunities to make mistakes and learn from them, or to explore and discover, a chance for users to grow . Dumbing-down software only encourages more of the same. The "senior try…

For kicks, try replacing "software" with "automobiles" in your paragraph. The innards of a modern car are incomprehensible to all but "the few elite", and its interface goes a long way to hide all that complexity. I only have the vaguest idea how it works, and am perfectly happy to outsource its maintenance to professional mechanics, because all I care about is that it works . This should apply to computers. My famil…

> For kicks, try replacing "software" with "automobiles" in your paragraph... This should apply to computers.

A very bad analogy.

Auto drivers don't have be concerned about phishing attempts. Nobody sneaks into your garage and replaces your 2009 Toyota Camry with a near perfect duplicate that's wired up with snooping and tracking devices in order to steal your identity, bank accounts, logins, etc.

After 20 years educating the public on what URLs are and how they work we're going up and change things around just to appease the "senior citizen / soccer mom" stereotype. Bad idea. How about we design software for the next generation of tech savvy kids instead of 75 year old senior citizens who still haven't figured out how to use a computer mouse no matter how many times they've been shown?

Also one last point. The software UI was the abstraction of the hardware. We don't need to further abstract the abstraction.

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