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Burying the URL

allenpike.com

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Re: Burying the URL

#341
post #248
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be asking for a generic "Tablet" interface, with multiple compartmentalized apps/processes for each of your use cases. Want to read? I either fire up the Adobe PDF reader and load something from my history or I open my email/dropbox/trello card and tap an attachment, which opens up the PDF reader. Almost all the interesting ideas in academia come in .pdf format, not .html. It just fits our use case better…

There is a problem here, in that the user might not know which app should handle $x.

On most modern OSes, the OS will generally know. Though I find "app for document type" models largely broken.

Re: Burying the URL

#342
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm smelling a possible reboot of the browser paradigm. There are a few fundamental uses I see, and they're somewhat distinct: • Reading. For which stripping 99.99966% of Web formatting would be preferred. If I got content-heavy sites in a form similar to what Readability, Pocket, Instapaper, etc., delivers, I'd be much happier. Well, slightly less grumpy. I found it interesting that the Kobo tablet was, for a while,…

I agree there needs to be some reboot. Browsers could really help the user more. Regarding the apps breaking out, if we did away with tabs this could help, improve or rethink window management. I was trying to think what's the difference between a 'frozen' web page / state and a bookmark. There is a difference, but for some pages, a bookmark is enough. I've always thought that tabs are really just perhaps a more conv…

I like tabs. They needn't be to specific pages, however. And I hugely dislike horizontal tabs -- tree-style tabs (available as an extension on Firefox) give you additional cues of position and nesting, and can show far more context even in a busy browser session (and all my browser sessions are busy).

A bookmark doesn't retain where you are on a page. Only the page's location.

Bookmarks also don't relate to your current browser session. I usually organize mine by topic. For current task work what I want is a stack or other less-organized list that I can skip back and forth on.

Firefox's session restore was configurable. I'm a few revs back on Debian (24.4.0), so I'm not sure what all's changed recently.

Re: Burying the URL

#343
post #279
post #81

This reminds me of a discussion with a university professor back in the mid-90's, when the Internet started to reach the common user. He was exactly doing a research in how to remove the URLs from the user view, without changing the HTTP protocol.

Wasn't the visible URL originally a Mosaic "innovation"? It doesn't seem to have been visible by default on WorldWideWeb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WorldWideWeb , or on Erwise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwise , though it does appear at the bottom of the screen in WP's ViolaWWW https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ViolaWWW screenshot.

I always remember Netscape with it.

In Portugal we only got to have access to the Web around 1994.

Before that most of us could only afford BBS connections.

Re: Burying the URL

#345
post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you've never used a mac in that case. Good luck finding a filepath with them. One of my biggest annoyances with mine right now.

I think it's quite ironic that you just received four different suggestions of how to solve this problem. None of that would even be necessary if they didn't try to hide the information in the first place.

One step left until the "recently viewed" filesystem, where paths are a backwards-compatibility bug. That's when you notice you didn't age well...

Re: Burying the URL

#346
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Academia is mostly standardized on arxiv - I can read papers from 12 different journals and they're all in the same format there. The rest of the web hasn't got there yet - if I want to read 12 different blog articles I have to navigate 12 different kinds of styled pages.

What's the arxiv format if I could ask?

Not a format, a website; arxiv.org.

Re: Burying the URL

#347
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a problem here, in that the user might not know which app should handle $x.

On most modern OSes, the OS will generally know. Though I find "app for document type" models largely broken.

I interpreted the comment differently. I read that the human was to do the association more on a task base, rather than a file association.

Re: Burying the URL

#348

Brilliant idea! And while we are going about removing unsightly, brain-straining details from every UI, let's remove all street signs, house numbers, highway exit signs, and so on. Also, hide all place names on all maps, Because who needs that complicated excessively detailed noise? Instead at any time we can just call one of the ubiquitous Google-taxis, and ask it to take us to the place we can vaguely describe by s…

The people in support of this horrific plan need to listen to PHK's advice at FOSDEM[1]. It may seem like he's talking about a certain three-letter-agency in that talk, but his thesis is far more general. It's a warning about how frighteningly trivial it is to prevent a whole crowd of techies from addressing core political/sociological problems by distracting them with useless technical distractions.

The question has nothing to do with what "URL" means, the various ideas about how to make an efficient UI, or even the current knowledge and skill-level (or lack thereof) found in the median user. Those are distractions.

Instead, the only question any of you should be asking is if removing URL visibility serves, in the long run, to educate and empower users, or if it instead removes power from users - even those that do not yet exercise that power.

Often - and especially here on HN - there is a tendency in geeks to avoid the hard political and sociological issue. Unfortunately, some issues are inherently non-technical at their core, and attempting to avoid those hard questions by limiting attention to the technical minutia, a political or sociological choice is still being made. All too often, it is leaving that choice to those who seek to steal power, making those that avoid the real question into useful idiots.

Because this is a crowd that enjoys scifi, a quote from the end of Sleeping In Light:

   "[Babylon 5] taught us that we had to create the future, or others will do it for us.
    It showed us that we have to care for each other – because if we don't, who will?
    And that strength sometimes comes from the most unlikely of places.

    Mostly, though, I think it gave us hope that there can always be new beginnings,
    even for people like us."
Instead of giving the "large serving" of offensive language that this proposal does deserve, I suggest instead that there is still time to choose to create a future that includes a free internet similar to the one we've enjoyed, instead of another step towards the encroaching "dumbed down" corporate nonsense that treats users as idiots and actual internet addresses being only shown to some new corporate/techie priesthood.

[1] http://video.fosdem.org/2014/Janson/Sunday/NSA_operation_ORC...

Re: Burying the URL

#349
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree there needs to be some reboot. Browsers could really help the user more. Regarding the apps breaking out, if we did away with tabs this could help, improve or rethink window management. I was trying to think what's the difference between a 'frozen' web page / state and a bookmark. There is a difference, but for some pages, a bookmark is enough. I've always thought that tabs are really just perhaps a more conv…

I like tabs. They needn't be to specific pages, however. And I hugely dislike horizontal tabs -- tree-style tabs (available as an extension on Firefox) give you additional cues of position and nesting, and can show far more context even in a busy browser session (and all my browser sessions are busy). A bookmark doesn't retain where you are on a page . Only the page's location. Bookmarks also don't relate to your cur…

Yes state as in where you are in a page isn't stored in the bookmark. I get that. I've tried loads of tab extensions. That one was broken for me when I tried it. I still think this is window manager / desktop manager territory, grouping: tasks, pages, apps, sessions.

Perhaps listening to a passage of text and typing some notes and reading a web page belong to a given task, and I might want to stash that away and pick it up later. Although I'm probably kidding myself thinking I can multi-task, and manage multiple tasks, sessions. Freezing one or two though might be useful.

Re: Burying the URL

#350
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree there needs to be some reboot. Browsers could really help the user more. Regarding the apps breaking out, if we did away with tabs this could help, improve or rethink window management. I was trying to think what's the difference between a 'frozen' web page / state and a bookmark. There is a difference, but for some pages, a bookmark is enough. I've always thought that tabs are really just perhaps a more conv…

I like tabs. They needn't be to specific pages, however. And I hugely dislike horizontal tabs -- tree-style tabs (available as an extension on Firefox) give you additional cues of position and nesting, and can show far more context even in a busy browser session (and all my browser sessions are busy). A bookmark doesn't retain where you are on a page . Only the page's location. Bookmarks also don't relate to your cur…

I'm on Debian Nightly 31. And I can't even find the managing session stuff in the menus. I'm sure I used to be able to save a group of tabs.

If bookmark management was better in the browsers I'm sure people would use them far more.

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