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Warning: Software Startups are Not as Easy as Everyone Says

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Re: Warning: Software Startups are Not as Easy as Everyone Says

#31

Post by andreyf »

mrtron wrote: post #21
mnemonicsloth wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A straw man is a proxy, a fake, a stand-in for the real thing. So to make a straw man argument, I have to distort something you've said so that it becomes easier to refute. Feel free to explain how I can do this when your post is reproduced verbatim above mine. You meant argumentum ad hominem (advanced by a loaded question, even!). Technically, it's not relevant to startups' degree of ease whether you've been success…

No, the strawman you were presenting was that I had no idea about this topic because I had not experienced it myself. That is a fallacy, and it is untrue in this situation. I did not mean it was a loaded question, I wasn't sure whether you were being a jerk or not. Clearly, you were trying to be a pompous ass, and are again with this second comment. I hardly claim to be an expert, I CLEARLY stated to have some anecdo…

mnemonicsloth, mrtron - are you two dating?

(serious question, you sound like a couple I know)

Re: Warning: Software Startups are Not as Easy as Everyone Says

#32

Post by jsnx »

mrtron wrote: post #21
mnemonicsloth wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A straw man is a proxy, a fake, a stand-in for the real thing. So to make a straw man argument, I have to distort something you've said so that it becomes easier to refute. Feel free to explain how I can do this when your post is reproduced verbatim above mine. You meant argumentum ad hominem (advanced by a loaded question, even!). Technically, it's not relevant to startups' degree of ease whether you've been success…

No, the strawman you were presenting was that I had no idea about this topic because I had not experienced it myself. That is a fallacy, and it is untrue in this situation. I did not mean it was a loaded question, I wasn't sure whether you were being a jerk or not. Clearly, you were trying to be a pompous ass, and are again with this second comment. I hardly claim to be an expert, I CLEARLY stated to have some anecdo…

Your use of 'strawman' is incorrect.

Re: Warning: Software Startups are Not as Easy as Everyone Says

#33

Post by jsnx »

hacker64 wrote: post #4
migpwr wrote: post #3

Why do you people up vote this stuff? This place is turning into planet of the obvious... do you really need to read a page of it's not easy? pfff junk

It's not as obvious as you might think. Otherwise, there won't be tens of thousands of anandoned startups.

Otherwise there wouldn't be tens of thousands...

Re: Warning: Software Startups are Not as Easy as Everyone Says

#34

Post by run4yourlives »

rokhayakebe wrote: post #29
cellis wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't know what the hell you're talking about. Not started as startups? Most? Wow! You clearly need to do a bit more research.

Maybe if we skip the insult we can all come to an understanding. I do not think you deserve an explanation from me, but I will still give one for the intelligent and respectful others. Most successful companies today were started by engineers who were working on a product/service as a project. After realizing that they are sitting on something valuable (and most likely this happens by accident), they start to look in…

I think you are wrong, although I don't think you deserved to be down-modded.

Re: Warning: Software Startups are Not as Easy as Everyone Says

#35

Post by snifty »

nickb wrote: post #13
caveman82 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article's fault is not that the message itself is overtly obvious, it's that it neglects the more important question of: Why there will always be a large number of entrepreneurs in spite of the low success rates of starting a business and the enormous amount of work, dedication, and "luck" required to be immensely successful. But that would be opening up an economic/philosophical can of worms that is neither here…

> Why there will always be a large number of entrepreneurs in spite of the low success rates Visit Las Vegas or lotto ticket booth and chat to people... it will clear up a lot of things.

This isn't a very good comparison.

I applaud the fact that the post is advocating a bit of realism (something which is in short supply in the entrepreneurial world). I also don't deny that there is an element of luck in succeeding. But it's _not_ a total crapshoot. There is a lot more variance and room for planning in a business than there is sitting at a craps table.

I think on average people who at least try to start a company and work to build something are not comparable to people sitting on their asses pouring quarters into slots or lottery tickets.

Re: Warning: Software Startups are Not as Easy as Everyone Says

#36

Post by Alex3917 »

nikolaj wrote: post #5

i get the feeling people are voting up by the title, not the actual article content.. seriously, this is entirely obvious and of digg caliber.. not what i expect from news.yc

Good writing creates value for the reader. This can be done not only by presenting an original insight, but by adding value to an existing insight. This can be done by

- Putting an idea into context

- Providing relevant facts and statistics

- Pointing out the implications of an idea

- Drawing new conclusions from an old idea. etc.

Even though the insight might not be 100% original, the author still managed to "say something worth saying about something worth saying something about." At least for me.

It was also exceptionally well-written.

Re: Warning: Software Startups are Not as Easy as Everyone Says

#37

Post by mrtron »

jsnx wrote: post #32
mrtron wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the strawman you were presenting was that I had no idea about this topic because I had not experienced it myself. That is a fallacy, and it is untrue in this situation. I did not mean it was a loaded question, I wasn't sure whether you were being a jerk or not. Clearly, you were trying to be a pompous ass, and are again with this second comment. I hardly claim to be an expert, I CLEARLY stated to have some anecdo…

Your use of 'strawman' is incorrect.

I hate 'arguing' this way, but no it is not. Straw man: Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, refute that person's arguments, and pretend that every upholder of that position, and thus the position itself, has been defeated.

He was presenting me as someone who had no experience with a startup, thus shooting down my arguments about the ease of starting up. Explain how this is incorrect? He presents me as an individual with no experience with startups. He then uses that to attempt to shoot down my arguments.

Re: Warning: Software Startups are Not as Easy as Everyone Says

#38

Post by jsnx »

mrtron wrote: post #37
jsnx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your use of 'strawman' is incorrect.

I hate 'arguing' this way, but no it is not. Straw man: Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, refute that person's arguments, and pretend that every upholder of that position, and thus the position itself, has been defeated. He was presenting me as someone who had no experience with a startup, thus shooting down my arguments about the ease of starting up. Explain how this is incorrect? He…

For mnemonicsloth to make a strawman argument, he'd first have said something like "some people say " and then go on "however, , so we know $x is false". Therein lies the fallacy -- a disproof of a proof of $x is not a disproof of $x.

In other words, it's not about presenting a person as a poor defender, it's about presenting a poor defense. Cutting straight to a person's worth as a commentator -- as mnemonicsloth did -- is argument "ad hominem" ("to the person").

Re: Warning: Software Startups are Not as Easy as Everyone Says

#39

Post by [deleted] »

andreyf wrote: post #31
mrtron wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the strawman you were presenting was that I had no idea about this topic because I had not experienced it myself. That is a fallacy, and it is untrue in this situation. I did not mean it was a loaded question, I wasn't sure whether you were being a jerk or not. Clearly, you were trying to be a pompous ass, and are again with this second comment. I hardly claim to be an expert, I CLEARLY stated to have some anecdo…

mnemonicsloth, mrtron - are you two dating? (serious question, you sound like a couple I know)

[deleted]

Re: Warning: Software Startups are Not as Easy as Everyone Says

#40

Post by mnemonicsloth »

andreyf wrote: post #31
mrtron wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the strawman you were presenting was that I had no idea about this topic because I had not experienced it myself. That is a fallacy, and it is untrue in this situation. I did not mean it was a loaded question, I wasn't sure whether you were being a jerk or not. Clearly, you were trying to be a pompous ass, and are again with this second comment. I hardly claim to be an expert, I CLEARLY stated to have some anecdo…

mnemonicsloth, mrtron - are you two dating? (serious question, you sound like a couple I know)

This is my first meeting with mrtron, so I don't think we're dating (unless you mean 'by LiveJournal standards', in which your guess would be as good as mine).

I'm engaged in the real world. We fight all the time.

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