Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's getting more and more common these days that whenever I talk to people about travel, the US is completely off their list. As people in the United States wake up on a Sunday morning in their time zones, I guess it falls on me to say that this all depends on whom you talk to. I know lots of people who desire to visit the United States. The United States is still second only to France as the country most visited by…
No offense but the tone of your post screams 'butthurt'. Leave your national pride and various statistics-based pissing contests out of this (and the sour grapes argument is completely emotion-based and irrelevant). There are many legitimate reasons for non-Americans to avoid the US these days and unpleasant immigration procedures are just one of them. I am for one simply afraid of going there, not knowing what kind…
Countries you shouldn't visit if you want to travel to the US
31–40 of 56 posts
Re: Countries you shouldn't visit if you want to travel to the US
#32It's getting more and more common these days that whenever I talk to people about travel, the US is completely off their list. The TSA, NSA, NYPD, Bloods and Crips, the reasons go on. It used to be that Disney Land was one of the reasons to go to America. More and more people I speak to who would have gone now say "meh" to the idea.
It's getting more and more common these days that whenever I talk to people about travel, the US is completely off their list. As people in the United States wake up on a Sunday morning in their time zones, I guess it falls on me to say that this all depends on whom you talk to. I know lots of people who desire to visit the United States. The United States is still second only to France as the country most visited by…
> That's remarkable to me because France has land borders with
> several other countries, all countries with large populations,
> while the United States mostly has to be reached by transoceanic
> air travel.
No, it mostly doesn't have to be reached by transoceanic air
travel. According to some quick searching[1] around more than half of
the tourists coming into the US are from Canada and Mexico.It certainly has more of an international mix than France[2] due to France's proximity to to other countries though.
1. http://geography.about.com/b/2012/05/02/country-of-origin-of... 2. http://www.dgcis.gouv.fr/files/files/directions_services/etu...
Re: Countries you shouldn't visit if you want to travel to the US
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bloods and Crips? How are the Bloods and Crips a reason to avoid travel to the US?
Ignorance. Ignorance of how they work and how unlikely they are to affect your life. (I'm sure many Americans are similarly ignorant about some "dangerous" group in another geographic location which is in fact dangerous but unlikely to be encountered.)
(India is dangerous, but not for men, and not because of poverty.)
Re: Countries you shouldn't visit if you want to travel to the US
#34It's getting more and more common these days that whenever I talk to people about travel, the US is completely off their list. The TSA, NSA, NYPD, Bloods and Crips, the reasons go on. It used to be that Disney Land was one of the reasons to go to America. More and more people I speak to who would have gone now say "meh" to the idea.
Bloods and Crips? How are the Bloods and Crips a reason to avoid travel to the US?
Re: Countries you shouldn't visit if you want to travel to the US
#35It's getting more and more common these days that whenever I talk to people about travel, the US is completely off their list. The TSA, NSA, NYPD, Bloods and Crips, the reasons go on. It used to be that Disney Land was one of the reasons to go to America. More and more people I speak to who would have gone now say "meh" to the idea.
It's getting more and more common these days that whenever I talk to people about travel, the US is completely off their list. As people in the United States wake up on a Sunday morning in their time zones, I guess it falls on me to say that this all depends on whom you talk to. I know lots of people who desire to visit the United States. The United States is still second only to France as the country most visited by…
The only exception to this are US immigration officials who I dread dealing with everytime I arrive. All my paperwork is in order and I've never visited any of those 'dodgy' countries but they are just so unfriendly and standoffish that it spoils my arrival. I get the impression they assume every arriving person has no right to enter and should be treated almost like a criminal.
Re: Countries you shouldn't visit if you want to travel to the US
#36Re: Countries you shouldn't visit if you want to travel to the US
#37It's getting more and more common these days that whenever I talk to people about travel, the US is completely off their list. The TSA, NSA, NYPD, Bloods and Crips, the reasons go on. It used to be that Disney Land was one of the reasons to go to America. More and more people I speak to who would have gone now say "meh" to the idea.
It's getting more and more common these days that whenever I talk to people about travel, the US is completely off their list. As people in the United States wake up on a Sunday morning in their time zones, I guess it falls on me to say that this all depends on whom you talk to. I know lots of people who desire to visit the United States. The United States is still second only to France as the country most visited by…
To some extent, we are reduced to anecdote, because an opaque and sometimes seemingly capricious (if not malicious) system -- or set of sometimes cooperating, sometimes competing systems -- leaves us no choice.
There also appears to be no effective and consistent gradation in risk management. No ability to elicit further investigation and potential resolution of open questions -- whether they are legitimate or the result of an inept initial evaluation.
A prime example of this, not with respect to visas but with respect to ongoing travel, with plans already made and tickets already purchased, is the "no-fly list" and other apparent, more obscure and hidden lists and qualifications having similar effects upon travel.
Are you on it? We can't tell you. Why are you on it? We can't tell you. I (general "I") have a mountain of evidence I can present demonstrating that I'm not a threat. There's no effective appeal process (never mind any "ostensible" appeal process; much reporting has demonstrated such to apparently be entirely non-functional). I'm willing to submit to search to demonstrate that I am not nor am carrying any immediate threat. Not an option.
That and why you are on the list is a secret. Options to mitigate a perceived risk and allow travel are not an option.
Hardly hallmarks of an "open" society.
I mention the "no-fly list" also in good part because it applies also to U.S. citizens. Such cases are not a matter of a foreign national soliciting the U.S. for a... "privilege". They reflect a government opaquely and apparently extra-judicially limiting free association (via travel).
The U.S. is still the envy of much of the world, and not without some good reasons. And the majority of trips both by foreign nationals and by U.S. citizens take place without undo circumstance. But the trend in travel restrictions worries me, for one. And, as an ostensibly self-governing citizenry, how are we to effectively govern as such policies increasingly cut us off from controversial parts of the world we might do well to actually pay more attention to? Such governance includes foreign policy. Also, foreign examples can serve as useful lessons in guiding our own domestic policy -- if such examples are though of as "bad", then as examples of things to learn from and hopefully avoid.
token, I know you as an open-minded, insightful, and "fair" participant, here, and I don't mean my response to come across as overly "argumentative" or upset. Rather, I take your point, but present my own not so much as a counter-point but as an adjunct that I think also needs to be considered, and so I'm mentioning it in this response.
Re: Countries you shouldn't visit if you want to travel to the US
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also, you would not be "jailed or killed for no reason" in Saudi Arabia -- it's just that some of the reasons you would be jailed are a bit unusual (adultery, alcohol, proselytizing). https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia#Respect
Or for women: Having been raped .... (I don't find the link now, but there was a news about a European woman, that was raped and when she was going to the police, she was arrested for adultery and threatened with jail (I think) or else she should marry the rapist. I am not sure, if it was Saudi Arabia or a neighboring country, but such a thing just makes me ill!)
†http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosecution_of_Marte_Dalelv ‡http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alicia_Gali
Re: Countries you shouldn't visit if you want to travel to the US
#39Stamps on a passport is actually a pretty good example on what one would like to hide from the authorities even though he didn't do anything wrong. I say that as an answer to people like Eric Schmidt who say that if we have something to hide, we shouldn't have done it in the first place. Well, that would be true in a perfect world, but here we have a perfect example that it's not the case. So for this case, I would a…
Yeah, I know people who have "lost" their passport in between trips to Israel and to Arab countries. I guess it's worth the replacement fee to avoid potential problems.
Re: Countries you shouldn't visit if you want to travel to the US
#40In a lot of Europe you would not know that you had crossed a border, it is no big deal. Even in and out of Switzerland that is not 'part of Europe' in the EU sense. It feels good when nobody cares to look at your passport and you can just roll on in. There is also the knowledge that if you were up to no good, e.g. smuggling drugs, they would probably catch you as you stopped off at the 'drop off', to not just nab you…
Well, that's because most of the EU (plus Switzerland and Norway) is part of the Schengen Area which explicitly allows for free movement between countries. I assure you that you can't just roll into the UK which is not under that agreement.