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How to tell when someone is lying?

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Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#51

Post by ph0rque »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #35
mapleoin wrote: post #32

Hardly anyone refrains from lying altogether, and some people report lying up to twelve times within that time span. I might open a conversation, for instance, by saying how nice it is to meet someone—when I’m really not at all happy about it. I might go on to say that I grew up in Boston—a lie, technically, since I really grew up in a small town about forty minutes outside the city. I could say that the person’s wor…

That's not lying. There's no intent to deceive - nobody is fooled. We know conventionally that he lives 'somewhere around Boston'; that he's offering an opening conversational gambit and not conveying emotional information; that we're confirming his right to enjoy something and not communicating a restaurant review. If we must call it lying, then we need a new word for when someone tells an intentional untruth with t…

We know conventionally that he lives 'somewhere around Boston'

When Americans ask me where I was born, I don't say the actual country that no longer exists (USSR) nor the country that it is called now (Kazakhstan). I simply say Russia. The reason is that it's simpler for Americans to understand Russia.

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#52

Post by pstuart »

mrcdima wrote: post #16

After reading all of Paul Ekman's books, watching all episodes of Lie to Me, and reading various other pop-science books, articles, posts, and so on, all on body language and lie detection, the only honest conclusion I could reach was that if you really want to know if someone's lying you better know the truth beforehand. Though there is some science to the method, it ultimately relies on very complex combinations of…

After hearing about Ekman's work some time back I assumed somebody would come up with an app that would be able to analyze a video feed to spot the microexpressions. I guess it's just not that easy (or perhaps not reliable).

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#54

Post by flint »

3rd3 wrote: post #37
asgard1024 wrote: post #11

Well, there is a simple method: 1. Get the statement from the person that might be lying. 2. Find out what the truth was. If the truth is different than the statement, the person was lying. Recently uncovered famous liars, with this method, include James Clapper and Vladimir Putin.

This sentence is false.

Liar!

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#56

Post by conanbatt »

mrcdima wrote: post #16

After reading all of Paul Ekman's books, watching all episodes of Lie to Me, and reading various other pop-science books, articles, posts, and so on, all on body language and lie detection, the only honest conclusion I could reach was that if you really want to know if someone's lying you better know the truth beforehand. Though there is some science to the method, it ultimately relies on very complex combinations of…

I read once that experienced detectives are worse at telling lies than rookies. The article theorized that old-timey detectives get very confident on their intuition and experience, so they assume they are right on a hunch sooner than rookies. The latter, unexperienced as they are,look harder at the facts and are more humble about guessing right or wrong.

There is something dangerous in believing you have the key to knowing when someone is lying or not: if you are confident someone is lying you are more likely to disregard facts or evidence, to justify your hunch.

Criminal profilers might qualify as experts in court, saying someone "fits the profile", helping the state make a case, while their profiling could be totally wrong, as it was in the famous sniper case, where they went with the classic "middle aged caucasian" and the killer was black and with his son(?) as an accomplice.

Even worse when you go through TSA, where the justifiable hunches are almost certainly ethnically biased.

I respect law enforcements developed intuition to know "something might be happening", but would never take that as more than a football player thinking he will score the next goal.

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#57

Post by sejje »

ph0rque wrote: post #51
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not lying. There's no intent to deceive - nobody is fooled. We know conventionally that he lives 'somewhere around Boston'; that he's offering an opening conversational gambit and not conveying emotional information; that we're confirming his right to enjoy something and not communicating a restaurant review. If we must call it lying, then we need a new word for when someone tells an intentional untruth with t…

We know conventionally that he lives 'somewhere around Boston' When Americans ask me where I was born, I don't say the actual country that no longer exists (USSR) nor the country that it is called now (Kazakhstan). I simply say Russia. The reason is that it's simpler for Americans to understand Russia.

What makes you think we understand Russia better than we understand Kazakhstan?

Maybe you wish to have imparted your culture or something, however I don't expect most people have any reasonable idea what the culture is like in neither Russia nor Kazakhstan.

Are you just hoping they know where it is on the map?

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#58

Post by gizmo686 »

nitrogen wrote: post #39
ZenPro wrote: post #15

As a former MI interrogator, this was part of my skillset. For the average layman looking to spot lies within a complex story there is an exceptionally simply method known as reverse chronological testing It works best for people you know are purposefully lying and you need a hook or a fallacy for proof. 1. Ask the person to recount their version of events. >> Oh so you went out with the girls at 7pm, then what happe…

2. A liar will naturally add more detail to try and manufacture credibility. Do not interrupt. Let them ramble. Silence from you will solicit more imaginings from them. I've heard the exact opposite, that a truthful account will include extraneous detail because those details are part of the true memory that the person is replaying in their mind.

That is not necessarily a contradiction. The reason that liars add detail is to mimick truth tellers, so it makes sense that truth tellers add details as well. The important difference is that truth tellers do not need to remember the details, because they already remember them, whereas the liar needs to remember the new details.

Having said that, as a lay person, I would be concerned about false positives. Memory is associative, so even with a truth teller, I would expect more detailed and accurate recollection when told in chronological order then reverse-chronological order.

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#59

Post by JoshTriplett »

saraid216 wrote: post #20
ZenPro wrote: post #15

As a former MI interrogator, this was part of my skillset. For the average layman looking to spot lies within a complex story there is an exceptionally simply method known as reverse chronological testing It works best for people you know are purposefully lying and you need a hook or a fallacy for proof. 1. Ask the person to recount their version of events. >> Oh so you went out with the girls at 7pm, then what happe…

To generalize the technique, it's basically (1) solicit detail repetitively and (2) wait for contradictions to show up in large quantities. It's most effective in specific situations, like interrogations, because you have an important subject under discussion for which the lies pertain to. In a setting like, say, "did you forget to call me last night?" it pays to remember that everyone lies instinctively and if you t…

> In a setting like, say, "did you forget to call me last night?" it pays to remember that everyone lies instinctively

Everyone? My first reaction to that question would be "Apparently.", followed by trying to find out more detail (such as what I was supposed to have called about).

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#60

Post by JoshTriplett »

ZenPro wrote: post #22
saraid216 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To generalize the technique, it's basically (1) solicit detail repetitively and (2) wait for contradictions to show up in large quantities. It's most effective in specific situations, like interrogations, because you have an important subject under discussion for which the lies pertain to. In a setting like, say, "did you forget to call me last night?" it pays to remember that everyone lies instinctively and if you t…

Not quite - The technique you refer to already exists. It is distinct from reverse chronological. Approaches are numerous and to the layman the differences seem like semantics but they each have a specific use (I went into some detail on another answer above). However, something like "did you forget to call me last night?" is not a great example. The RC technique works for complex scenarios such as an individual lyin…

That works against a remarkably stupid questioner who repeats the same question. More efficiently, so does this:

Did you steal it?

>> No

Did you steal it?

>> What makes you think asking the same question again will get a different answer?

Did you steal it?

(Silence)

And in a court, the second question would prompt an objection of "asked and answered" for the same reason.

On the other hand, a better questioner would ask questions around the same area and try to find a question they can get a response to. In particular, they'd ask questions for which it would be more unusual for someone to refuse to respond:

Did you see anyone or anything suspicious in the area?

Do you know Bob?

Where were you at the time?

Do you know anyone who might have reason to ...?

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