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How to tell when someone is lying?

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Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#21

Post by atacrawl »

Any time this topic comes up, I think immediately of the Louise Woodward case (aka the British Nanny Case): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Woodward_case

During the trial, much was made of Louise Woodward's odd demeanor on the stand; particularly, her propensity to awkwardly twist her mouth to stifle laughter during testimony. Many interpreted that as a sign of guilt, but my grandmother would laugh in a similar fashion whenever she was nervous or uncomfortable. Woodward struck me as genuine.

On the other hand, at the end of the trial, the baby's mother read a statement to the court. Her delivery was cold, emotionless and oddly stable given the circumstances. It was unnerving, and I've never forgotten it.

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#22

Post by ZenPro »

saraid216 wrote: post #20
ZenPro wrote: post #15

As a former MI interrogator, this was part of my skillset. For the average layman looking to spot lies within a complex story there is an exceptionally simply method known as reverse chronological testing It works best for people you know are purposefully lying and you need a hook or a fallacy for proof. 1. Ask the person to recount their version of events. >> Oh so you went out with the girls at 7pm, then what happe…

To generalize the technique, it's basically (1) solicit detail repetitively and (2) wait for contradictions to show up in large quantities. It's most effective in specific situations, like interrogations, because you have an important subject under discussion for which the lies pertain to. In a setting like, say, "did you forget to call me last night?" it pays to remember that everyone lies instinctively and if you t…

Not quite -

The technique you refer to already exists. It is distinct from reverse chronological.

Approaches are numerous and to the layman the differences seem like semantics but they each have a specific use (I went into some detail on another answer above).

However, something like "did you forget to call me last night?" is not a great example.

The RC technique works for complex scenarios such as an individual lying about their whereabouts over a considerable period of time (>hours).

It is not the technique of choice for specific incidents and in all honesty it would be useless.

It also not a data-driven technique based on contradictions since the entire narrative is largely fiction. The proof is the inability of the subject to recall what they have stated to be fact.

If you are interested, scrutiny by contradiction (the technique you kind of alluded to) is often accompanied by a sustained barrage of questioning. The two techniques together crack most liars quickly.

They are unable to maintain the contradictions under the constant assault of questioning eventually resigning to the questioner.

The best liars simply say nothing. Ever. Just simple denials/stonewalling followed by the occasional counter question.

Did you steal it?

>> No

Did you steal it?

>> No

Did you steal it?

>> No

Did you steal it?

>> No

Did you steal it?

>> Do you honestly think I would have stole it?

Did you steal it?

>> No

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#23

Post by samstave »

asgard1024 wrote: post #11

Well, there is a simple method: 1. Get the statement from the person that might be lying. 2. Find out what the truth was. If the truth is different than the statement, the person was lying. Recently uncovered famous liars, with this method, include James Clapper and Vladimir Putin.

Obama, Rice, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Bush, Bush I, Wolfowitz, Ashcroft, Clinton.... I mean -- the list is endless.

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#24

Post by Zigurd »

mrcdima wrote: post #16

After reading all of Paul Ekman's books, watching all episodes of Lie to Me, and reading various other pop-science books, articles, posts, and so on, all on body language and lie detection, the only honest conclusion I could reach was that if you really want to know if someone's lying you better know the truth beforehand. Though there is some science to the method, it ultimately relies on very complex combinations of…

Ekman's outfit designed the TSA's Behavioral Detection Officer program, which cost several hundred million dollars. Which shows how much some people want to believe. The GAO here says it was implemented without any evidence it is effective: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-112hhrg65053/html/CHRG-112...

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#25

Post by arbitrage »

atacrawl wrote: post #21

Any time this topic comes up, I think immediately of the Louise Woodward case (aka the British Nanny Case): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Woodward_case During the trial, much was made of Louise Woodward's odd demeanor on the stand; particularly, her propensity to awkwardly twist her mouth to stifle laughter during testimony. Many interpreted that as a sign of guilt, but my grandmother would laugh in a similar f…

Which is why it's a good thing that people are supposed to be judged based on facts, and not their popularity.

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#26

Post by meowface »

Crito wrote: post #4

It seems to me that under some circumstances, developing a skill for detecting liars could be dangerous. If you are good at catching liars, then your confidence in people who you do not belief to be lying could go up, which could in turn increase the damage done by false-negatives. Knowing that in all likelihood some of the people I interact with are sociopaths/psychopaths (somewhere in the neighborhood of 1% of the…

Are you suggesting that it is impossible to detect that a sociopath or psychopath is lying? They're probably better at it, partially because they do it so much and can practice, but I doubt any of them are infallible.

That being said, it is indeed very risky to assume you can always detect lying, or even be certain that a particular person is lying. It's good to be wary but bad to be certain.

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#27

Post by ZenPro »

meowface wrote: post #26
Crito wrote: post #4

It seems to me that under some circumstances, developing a skill for detecting liars could be dangerous. If you are good at catching liars, then your confidence in people who you do not belief to be lying could go up, which could in turn increase the damage done by false-negatives. Knowing that in all likelihood some of the people I interact with are sociopaths/psychopaths (somewhere in the neighborhood of 1% of the…

Are you suggesting that it is impossible to detect that a sociopath or psychopath is lying? They're probably better at it, partially because they do it so much and can practice, but I doubt any of them are infallible. That being said, it is indeed very risky to assume you can always detect lying, or even be certain that a particular person is lying. It's good to be wary but bad to be certain.

Lying, as a social interaction, actually has a net benefit to society allowing interaction between humans - it can avoid conflict, ill feeling, embarrassment, shame and a whole host of other negative scenarios.

You are absolutely correct that it is risky to assume you can detect lying. Most of the time it is simply not in your best interest to even point out a lie let alone be wrong about it.

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#28

Post by [deleted] »

atacrawl wrote: post #21

Any time this topic comes up, I think immediately of the Louise Woodward case (aka the British Nanny Case): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Woodward_case During the trial, much was made of Louise Woodward's odd demeanor on the stand; particularly, her propensity to awkwardly twist her mouth to stifle laughter during testimony. Many interpreted that as a sign of guilt, but my grandmother would laugh in a similar f…

[deleted]

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#29

Post by morley »

vonnik wrote: post #3

The article's OK, but it doesn't actually deliver on the headline by illustrating the "tells" of a lie. This book is much more practical. http://www.amazon.com/Spy-Lie-Former-Officers-Deception/dp/1... One of the most interesting ideas is that no single tells indicates a lie, but clusters of them together are strong signals. A few would be: 1) pausing before you answer (lies take longer to compose than truths); 2) to…

These books sound like they're pushing type of pop psychology that the article says is bunk. From the article:

  When someone is lying, he looks up and to the side, 
  as if searching for something. A liar fidgets and 
  seems somehow nervous. Sometimes, he’ll scratch or 
  pull his ear. He’ll hesitate, as if he’s not sure 
  he wants to tell you something. These, however, are
  all “old wives’ tales,” Leanne ten Brinke, a 
  psychologist at the University of California at 
  Berkeley whose work focuses on detecting deception, 
  told me. “The empirical literature just doesn’t 
  bear that out.”

Re: How to tell when someone is lying?

#30

Post by Crito »

meowface wrote: post #26
Crito wrote: post #4

It seems to me that under some circumstances, developing a skill for detecting liars could be dangerous. If you are good at catching liars, then your confidence in people who you do not belief to be lying could go up, which could in turn increase the damage done by false-negatives. Knowing that in all likelihood some of the people I interact with are sociopaths/psychopaths (somewhere in the neighborhood of 1% of the…

Are you suggesting that it is impossible to detect that a sociopath or psychopath is lying? They're probably better at it, partially because they do it so much and can practice, but I doubt any of them are infallible. That being said, it is indeed very risky to assume you can always detect lying, or even be certain that a particular person is lying. It's good to be wary but bad to be certain.

I wouldn't say that I think it is impossible to detect when a sociopath/psychopath is lying, but I strongly suspect that I would not be good at it. Much of the body language and unease that is often associated with lying could be absent or minimized.
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