Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia • Hacker News Board

Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia

#81

Post by aaronem » Tue, Apr 22, 2014, 9:33 PM UTC

piokuc wrote: post #79

piokuc wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not know exile.ru till I saw the link in your comment, but what I gather from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_eXile it doesn't seem to be a serious source of historical knowledge. It's a Moscow based satirical tabloid - how came you, an American citizen, know it so well?

I'm asking cause you were referring to "their archives from the years during which they published in print". Were you not suggesting you knew the "historical facts" from their printed version and it was difficult to find those articles in their online archives?

No. I was suggesting that, now that they've been booted out of Russia and retooled around an exclusively online presence which lacks any firsthand information about events in Russia and has therefore degenerated into a useless ideological exercise, they don't care very much whether their old website is navigable or indeed even working.

I'd like to say I'm not sure how you reached such an erroneous conclusion, but that wouldn't be true. I'm pretty sure that that occurred because you are proceeding from the assumption that I'm sitting in a windowless room in a Moscow office building, earning thirty-some bucks' worth of rubles a day by sitting in front of a computer typing what my FSB manager tells me to type. As I said before, you're welcome to that assumption if it pleases you to adopt it, but it's not particularly conversant with reality, not that I expect you to take my word for that.

Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia

#82

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 22, 2014, 9:39 PM UTC

vetinari wrote: post #74

aaronem wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd hate to think anyone misread me as speaking in support of Putin for any reason. To conclude, from my explanation of why people in Russia support Putin, that I must support Putin as well, strikes me as bearing the same relationship to the more ordinary jump to a desired conclusion, as an Olympic-class pole vault does to a bunny hop; further, if it's no longer possible for the average interlocutor to recognize the…

HN is a social echo chamber [ http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/28232.html ]. Given it's libertarian leaning, it would be a big surprise, if it would try to objectively assess a topic that is under heavy propaganda from all sides.

[deleted]

Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia

#83

Post by dang » Tue, Apr 22, 2014, 9:39 PM UTC

piokuc wrote: post #79

piokuc wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not know exile.ru till I saw the link in your comment, but what I gather from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_eXile it doesn't seem to be a serious source of historical knowledge. It's a Moscow based satirical tabloid - how came you, an American citizen, know it so well?

I'm asking cause you were referring to "their archives from the years during which they published in print". Were you not suggesting you knew the "historical facts" from their printed version and it was difficult to find those articles in their online archives?

Personal attacks, such as your repeated insinuation that a fellow user is a propagandist, are not allowed on Hacker News. Please do not do this again.

It's dismaying that the commenter most attempting to contribute substantive discussion to this thread would be treated like this. If you want to talk about things that HN is disappointingly "not free from ... apparently", such accusations belong at the top of the list.

(My comment does not endorse aaronem's arguments, only his right not to be treated uncivilly on this site.)

Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia

#84

Post by aaronem » Tue, Apr 22, 2014, 9:52 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #83

piokuc wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm asking cause you were referring to "their archives from the years during which they published in print". Were you not suggesting you knew the "historical facts" from their printed version and it was difficult to find those articles in their online archives?

Personal attacks, such as your repeated insinuation that a fellow user is a propagandist, are not allowed on Hacker News. Please do not do this again. It's dismaying that the commenter most attempting to contribute substantive discussion to this thread would be treated like this. If you want to talk about things that HN is disappointingly "not free from ... apparently", such accusations belong at the top of the list.…

That it's necessary for you to include such a disclaimer, in order to avoid being misread, saddens me. I appreciate your efforts, in defense of civil discourse on HN, nonetheless.

Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia

#85

Post by prostoalex » Tue, Apr 22, 2014, 9:53 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #24

mverwijs wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is factually incorrect. Snowden stranded in Russia. He had a ticket for Cuba where intended to transfer to Bolivia(?). Either way: not Russia.

Yeah, but I don't think his current visa was given out "of the goodness of their hearts"

Well, he didn't have a Russian visa when he started traveling. US did not cancel his passport before he left Hong Kong, and they did not cancel his passport after he'd arrive at supposedly Cuba, they cancelled his passport precisely after he landed in SVO transit zone, but before he could fly out of it.

Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia

#86

Post by terminado » Tue, Apr 22, 2014, 9:53 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #77

teawithcarl wrote: post #64

Why has this aritcle (124 points, in 1 hour) only 15th on HN? Who is flagging this? Vkontakte is larger than Facebook in Russia, and the CEO has to flee due to ugly pressure. This isn't germane technology news?

Users are flagging it and moderators applied a penalty. This is standard practice. The only question is whether it should be on the front page at all, given the predictably low quality of the thread. It's not a question of it being off-topic. It's a question of it spurring shallow discussion that is high on agitation (noise) and low on reflection (signal). Consider the distinguishing features of the thread: (1) A top…

Given that the name of this site is "Hacker News" and not "Hacker Threads", one would expect high quality news items to bubble to the top of the main list, and not necessarily high-quality discussions.

You might want to reconsider the premise of flagging topics in order to facilitate ease of topic moderation. There's more to this site than merely the user discussion.

Are there any metrics that distinguish the ratio of active thread participants, versus quiet lurkers, versus users that seldom view the HN thread at all, and only look at the lists?

On a busy day at work, I'll check the RSS feed frequently, but rarely bother with HN proper. In short, this means if an article doesn't make it into the top 30 list, a (possibly-not-insignificant) portion your user base (myself included) might be effectively disinformed of the topic.

That's kind of important.

Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia

#87

Post by dang » Tue, Apr 22, 2014, 9:58 PM UTC

terminado wrote: post #86

dang wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users are flagging it and moderators applied a penalty. This is standard practice. The only question is whether it should be on the front page at all, given the predictably low quality of the thread. It's not a question of it being off-topic. It's a question of it spurring shallow discussion that is high on agitation (noise) and low on reflection (signal). Consider the distinguishing features of the thread: (1) A top…

Given that the name of this site is "Hacker News" and not "Hacker Threads", one would expect high quality news items to bubble to the top of the main list, and not necessarily high-quality discussions . You might want to reconsider the premise of flagging topics in order to facilitate ease of topic moderation. There's more to this site than merely the user discussion. Are there any metrics that distinguish the ratio…

That's a very good point. It's not obvious how to balance this. What would be better?

The status quo isn't ok, because it violates HN's values of substance and civility. Not having any threads at all is not an option. Selectively shutting down threads when they go off the rails seems draconian. Banning people for making poor contributions to poor threads is wrong; the same people often make good contributions elsewhere. Thoughts?

Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia

#88

Post by nomailing » Tue, Apr 22, 2014, 10:23 PM UTC

vitorbaptistaa wrote: post #62

Anyone knows how this affects Telegram?

I also would like to know that. it is the only real end-to-end encrypted whatsapp alternative. I hope it stays that way.

Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia

#89

Post by the_hangman » Tue, Apr 22, 2014, 10:48 PM UTC

aaronem wrote: post #70

piokuc wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether he is paid for his propaganda work or not, or just brainwashed and honestly believing in Putin I don't know; these are equally probable options, but they have the same cause: Putin's propaganda. Anyway, it is well known, that Russia is spamming online forums with propaganda: http://stratrisks.com/geostrat/7796 Honestly, I've seen many, many comments like that under any article criticising Putin and Kremlin, a…

So much for intellectual debate [1], then, I suppose. Congratulations, if you like, on having genuinely astounded me; perhaps it's merely foolish naïveté on my part, but I'd never have expected anyone to conclude that I am a traitor to my country, based merely on the facts that I know a little bit about modern history and that my English is better than yours. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7630065

Welcum 2 'merika.

Re: Vkontakte Founder Flees Russia

#90

Post by Volscio » Tue, Apr 22, 2014, 10:51 PM UTC

domdip wrote: post #19

broflosup wrote: post #6

He made $260 million in Russia creating a copy of Facebook. He sold his shares and resigned. But wait, he didn't _really_ resign. No, it was all an April fools joke! The investors didn't buy it and fired him. He claims the site is now under the control of Kremlin because one of its shareholders is Alisher Usmanov, an alleged ally of Putin. Yet, that guy was a shareholder for awhile now and Durov never complained abou…

As far as business in Russia goes, this sounds like a fairly normal course of events. Almost every large company has someone Putin-connected at the top, and when the Kremlin wants more control that's how they exercise it. (Either that, or corrupt court judgments that directly change corporate control.) Don't be surprised if there are a rash of allegations of corruption, embezzlement, etc., against Durov. The sad thin…

I was hoping to see these comments more prevalent in the hackernews thread. The story struck me at first as being interesting but then it seems like there's more murkiness involved and it's not an open-and-shut case. Not that the veracity of this passage is great, but seriously I was hoping for more of a critical eye on the story:

"United Capital Partners, a private company registered in Moscow that owns 48 percent of Vkontakte, disputed Durov's statements on Tuesday, saying he had been seeking to “politicize the situation” because there were “serious legal claims” against him and he was suspected of embezzlement."

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/vkontakte-founder...