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Results of the GitHub Investigation

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Re: Results of the GitHub Investigation

#401

Post by malandrew »

jw2013 wrote: post #313
ender7 wrote: post #81

"We didn't do anything illegal, or that would leave us vulnerable to a lawsuit" is about the only content that this blog post contains. While Horvath characterized much of her woes as being gender-related [1], the investigation could have classified most of them as either unprovable or terrible-but-not-provably-sexist (in particular, the behavior of the Preston-Werners). I doubt it will ever be clear what actually ha…

I doubt there will ever be any clear explanation on what happened. Two sides of the story basically tell two different stories. As someone mentioned in the post, Julie posted some tweets in response to Github's announcement today. ( https://twitter.com/nrrrdcore ) 1. Bullying someone into quitting: Illegal. 2. Asking an employee to relay private conversations between her and her partner: Illegal. 3. Justifying the ha…

    "Pushing [people] with strong opinions out of your company 
    because they disagree with you is wrong."
FTFY. This may or may not be a truism. Circumstances matter. If you are trying to steer a ship of several hundred people in one direction and you have one loud naysayer with poor tact, you are justified in pushing them out of the company. Should you listen to their opinions and give them adequate consideration? Certainly. But if they are being disruptive and toxic, pushing them out is acceptable. Allowing someone acting in a visibly toxic way to remain at the company is poor leadership. I say this as someone who was once that toxic person and also as someone who has raised concerns about the deleterious effects of toxic colleagues.

How you say something matters as much if not more than what you are saying. Given the tweets and posts I've seen from JAH, it's pretty easy to imagine prior behavior that others would have considered toxic.

Re: Results of the GitHub Investigation

#402

Post by rhizome »

abalone wrote: post #371
apercu wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sort of feel that if this anonymous posting was 100% accurate, then the cofounder wouldn't have resigned. Better if the people involved came out and told the truth.

Not necessarily. Even if Horvath was the original bully, inappropriate retaliation can still get you fired. Also, it may have come out in the investigation that the founder gave his non-employee wife way too much inappropriate latitude inside the company. She's conceded that she went too far with her activism around her startup. But especially if she crossed boundaries and had inappropriate access to private company…

She's conceded that she went too far with her activism around her startup.

That's a nice way of putting it.

Re: Results of the GitHub Investigation

#403

Post by rhizome »

cpncrunch wrote: post #369
apercu wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sort of feel that if this anonymous posting was 100% accurate, then the cofounder wouldn't have resigned. Better if the people involved came out and told the truth.

If his statement is to be believed then his resignation did actually have nothing to do with JAH's allegations. I'm not saying that anyone is lying here, just that the anon posting is plausible. I agree with you that it would be better if everyone just told the truth.

I agree with you that it would be better if everyone just told the truth.

Out of the mouths of babes...

Re: Results of the GitHub Investigation

#404

Post by Blahah »

caf wrote: post #397
devicenull wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a source any more reputable just because it's not anonymous?

Yes. A named or pseudonymous source necessarily has an associated reputation, but an anonymous source has no reputation at all.

A reputation for lying is stronger evidence that the information might be false than is no reputation at all.

Re: Results of the GitHub Investigation

#405

Post by RodericDay »

MarkPNeyer wrote: post #307
neilk wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone thinks the message of that movie is "all truth is subjective", but it's not. It's more like "the stories we tell ourselves and others are distorted by our self-image and our interests". At the end, the movie even explicitly rejects the theory that truth is unobtainable, and that everyone is corrupt. In the movie at least, disinterested third parties who have good intentions can reveal the truth. You may beli…

i'm not sure where you're getting this. the parent referenced a movie, after posting a quote marveling at the different ways people interpret the same reality. grandparent post was talking about the need for intellectual empathy. i've seen that work wonders in my life. it's like this thread of comments shows the need for intellectual empathy in microcosm.

I agree with your parent that the reference gave the impression of having misunderstood the film

It's like someone is raving about the military, and someone quotes appending Dulce et decorum est below. Not a big deal, but big enough to write a small comment making a correction, just in case.

Re: Results of the GitHub Investigation

#406

Post by marshray »

cynicalkane wrote: post #379
theorique wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She isn't helping her case with this ranting list. I'm certainly not saying that she's acting out some kind of "hysterical female" trope, but she is kind of acting in a kind of stereotypically "hysterical female" way. Legal counsel would probably suggest she stick a cork in it rather than make herself look bad.

Men are also capable of angry twitter explosions with the properties I'm talking about. I don't see why you felt the need to bring up the "hysterical female" stereotype. It doesn't add anything to the conversation.

Being labeled as a "hysterical female" or "that girl" is an often stated concern of women who speak out against workplace harassment.

(I am speaking in general and totally not referring to any specifics of the situation here.)

Re: Results of the GitHub Investigation

#407

Post by kfcm »

tptacek wrote: post #86
ender7 wrote: post #81

"We didn't do anything illegal, or that would leave us vulnerable to a lawsuit" is about the only content that this blog post contains. While Horvath characterized much of her woes as being gender-related [1], the investigation could have classified most of them as either unprovable or terrible-but-not-provably-sexist (in particular, the behavior of the Preston-Werners). I doubt it will ever be clear what actually ha…

You're right. It will never be clear what actually happened. I think Internet message boards create the perception that outcomes like that are rare. They're not: they're the norm. That's how it's supposed to be. We don't get to know everything and we need to work within the limits of our knowledge.

As a lawyer friend once told me regarding lawsuits: "People who hunger for the truth will go to bed hungry."

Re: Results of the GitHub Investigation

#408

Post by zenbowman »

It is shortsighted to think there is nothing we can learn from this. There are certainly things we can learn.

1) A good lawyer is worth a 1000 tweets.

2) Getting deeply romantically involved with coworkers carries serious risks, whether or not you believe a company has the right to restrict office romances or not.

3) The fetishization of "we don't have any process!" is a mark of immaturity, not Zen. One would think engineers of all people would understand the importance of formalized process.

I don't think anyone walks away a winner here.

Re: Results of the GitHub Investigation

#410

Post by wlesieutre »

wlesieutre wrote: post #141
[deleted] wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

Really? I must have missed the part where people were burned alive or had their heads chopped off.

For reference, parent comment was along the lines of "Woah. This is crazier than Game of Thrones!" Maybe an attempt at humor, but it's really not.
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