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Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

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Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#91

Post by zo1 »

thesimpsons1022 wrote: post #70
shadowfox wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Think of the starving artists, musicians, olympic athletes, working class poor, the startup set, etc Maybe you are right and I am just cynical. But I have felt that some of these groups (with the exception of working class poor) are tolerated because of their success potential than for their status as individuals. And even with that a large number of people appear to disdainful of unsuccessful people in these field…

the other person is wrong, the poor are definitely hated in america. they are villianized as lazy welfare queens. remember the 47 percent thing with Romney? turn on fox news for 10 minutes, John Stossel even villianizes the homeless. they also try to get rid of school lunches/food assistance for the poor.

That's the media for you, and not necessarily "Fox" or whatever x-wing group you seem to dislike. Fox news is only seen as "bad" because it doesn't exaggerate reality to the side that the majority like. The other news media outlets do the exact same thing, just towards the other side of the narrative.

Both sides of the media play on peoples' emotions. The real question is: are you intellectually honest enough to entertain views and thoughts for their own merit without dismissing them flatly just because "they're from Fox", "John Stossel", or "Romney".

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#92

Post by zo1 »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #45
grecy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and those who realize they have enough ignore the rich and are out living how they want to be (camping, hiking, taking photos, etc.)

and those who realize they have enough ignore the rich If you only could. The problem is that in the US a great portion of taxes are locally raised and spent, and the way of dealing with poverty is to price the poor out of areas where they aren't wanted. To get access to halfway decent schools you need to move to the suburbs, and what's available there in housing is hugely outsized. You cannot save on heating, coolin…

"Locally raised and spent"

If only. That would be a great form of funding community governance. Where local communities help themselves up, instead of practically begging for scraps from a wealthy government that really doesn't care until it gets them votes.

Change has to come from within. And it won't come so long as people think like you. i.e. "Change can come when funding comes from better places" Which completely ignores the real problems and real difficulties facing real people in those places you seem to not want to live in. Ask yourself why you don't want to live there.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#93

Post by zhemao »

reshambabble wrote: post #76

Singapore is also a tiny island with a limited population that has to import most everything. Over 40 years they've somehow created a culture of hard-working over-achievers and have one of the highest GDPs per capita in the world (they're currently #3). Being dependent on imported goods doesn't seem to be much of a problem here, so perhaps the secret lies in their carefully planned cultural shift. (But if it were me,…

Singapore is not nearly as isolated as NZ is. It's on a major ocean shipping lane and is just a bridge away from Malaysia. The problem isn't that NZ is reliant on imports (all countries are to a degree), it's that it is expensive to ship things there since it is out-of-the-way.

That being said, there probably is also a cultural element. I wouldn't really say it was a cultural shift. It's more that the relative stability and increasing globalization in the latter half of the 20th century gave Singaporeans the opportunity to realize their entrepreneurial ambitions.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#94

Post by throwawaymsft »

Varcht wrote: post #48
cryoshon wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the related phenomenon that in the US, the rich are in the spotlight of society and the poor are decidedly disliked.

I would disagree that "poor are decidedly disliked" here as a rule. There are plenty of "poor" that are accepted, liked and even esteemed. Think of the starving artists, musicians, olympic athletes, working class poor, the startup set, etc. There is dislike for the poor that resort to crime, thuggery, drugs etc. At least this is how I see it from my middle class perspective.

The starving artists, musicians, olympic athletes, and startup founders are temporarily not-yet-rich.

Not having won isn't the problem, it's being satisfied and not playing the game which society shuns.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#95

Post by selectodude »

jamesfranco wrote: post #32
JPKab wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good friend of mine studied abroad in Australia, and then met and moved in with a Kiwi and then lived in New Zealand with him for a while. He has now moved to the US with her. Her brother is a good friend of mine, and is incredibly irritated with his lack of drive and motivation. I've hiked with the guy, and I don't think he's lazy at all. He just doesn't value money, and his view on life is that he's going to teac…

"Nobody pressures you to achieve a certain level of material success." I live here in New Zealand and thats quiet true. There are 3 billionaires in NZ and almost no one knows who they are. The only guy that is living a noticeable extravagant lifestyle is Kimdotcom, but that guy's german.

What about Lorde?

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#96

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

cylinder wrote: post #33
JPKab wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good friend of mine studied abroad in Australia, and then met and moved in with a Kiwi and then lived in New Zealand with him for a while. He has now moved to the US with her. Her brother is a good friend of mine, and is incredibly irritated with his lack of drive and motivation. I've hiked with the guy, and I don't think he's lazy at all. He just doesn't value money, and his view on life is that he's going to teac…

If someone is a bit more ambitious but still wants a mix of the aforementioned lifestyle I would recommend Australia. Much bigger population and resources and better opportunities than NZ with a good safety net that doesn't cost the government much and doesn't suffer rampant abuse. I wouldn't recommend NZ for an American, except for perhaps retirement; it would just be too tough, the isolation and small pop. would be…

We don't all live in crowded cities or sprawling suburbs. My neighbor has a 1/4 mile drive from his house to the road. On my street, there are only 5 houses. And this is only 10 miles outside town! A couple minutes south and the density trends towards one house per mile.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#97

Post by pktm »

Varcht wrote: post #48
cryoshon wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the related phenomenon that in the US, the rich are in the spotlight of society and the poor are decidedly disliked.

I would disagree that "poor are decidedly disliked" here as a rule. There are plenty of "poor" that are accepted, liked and even esteemed. Think of the starving artists, musicians, olympic athletes, working class poor, the startup set, etc. There is dislike for the poor that resort to crime, thuggery, drugs etc. At least this is how I see it from my middle class perspective.

I'm reminded of "Fiddler on a Roof": "It's no great shame to be poor, but it's no great honor, either."

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#98

Post by lostlogin »

cylinder wrote: post #33
JPKab wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good friend of mine studied abroad in Australia, and then met and moved in with a Kiwi and then lived in New Zealand with him for a while. He has now moved to the US with her. Her brother is a good friend of mine, and is incredibly irritated with his lack of drive and motivation. I've hiked with the guy, and I don't think he's lazy at all. He just doesn't value money, and his view on life is that he's going to teac…

If someone is a bit more ambitious but still wants a mix of the aforementioned lifestyle I would recommend Australia. Much bigger population and resources and better opportunities than NZ with a good safety net that doesn't cost the government much and doesn't suffer rampant abuse. I wouldn't recommend NZ for an American, except for perhaps retirement; it would just be too tough, the isolation and small pop. would be…

Just in case people aren't aware, this advice presumably doesn't apply to New Zealanders. We have specifically been targeted over there so that many benefits don't apply. It's rather sad - Australians qualify for benefits in New Zealand.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#99

Post by lilsunnybee »

Varcht wrote: post #48
cryoshon wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the related phenomenon that in the US, the rich are in the spotlight of society and the poor are decidedly disliked.

I would disagree that "poor are decidedly disliked" here as a rule. There are plenty of "poor" that are accepted, liked and even esteemed. Think of the starving artists, musicians, olympic athletes, working class poor, the startup set, etc. There is dislike for the poor that resort to crime, thuggery, drugs etc. At least this is how I see it from my middle class perspective.

Outside of a few possible sports, running, soccer, etc. I doubt there are more than a handful of poor athletes that are able to compete. Most Olympic activities require intensive training and use of facilities that doesn't come cheap. Hours spent training are hours not spent earning enough for food and housing, and I don't think caloric and nutritional intake from a soup kitchen would be enough to sustain an athlete.

The startup set are almost all wealthy, if not in assets then definitely in schooling, parenting, confidence. Where did all the most successful entrepreneurs grow up, go to school, what professions are their parents in. It's a pretty homogenous group really.

The poor are treated like shit in the US (and in most of the world), and their concerns and opinions mean nothing to those in power.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#100

Post by lostlogin »

antipodean wrote: post #19

Early-rising New Zealander here (it's 5am folks!). Bullet points for starters: 1. We are genuinely relaxed people, life is good, weather not too hot or too cold, food easy to get or grow, housing not horribly expensive, healthcare obtainable for all, education as close to free as we can make it and an overall low crime and corruption rate. So the majority of us go to sleep at night, overall, not worried about losing…

Housing is horribly expensive in Auckland and the cost is rising fast. Compared to wages, Auckland's prices are unaffordable. https://www.interest.co.nz/property/69289/barfoot-thompson-r...
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