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Heartleech: Automated OpenSSL private key extraction tool using Heartbleed

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Re: Heartleech: Automated OpenSSL private key extraction tool using Heartbleed

#41

Post by eli »

Pxtl wrote: post #36
eli wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heartbeat goes both ways. If you can be tricked to accessing a malicious HTTPS server, it can extract data from the client . http://blog.meldium.com/home/2014/4/10/testing-for-reverse-h...

... wow, the media firestorm around heartbleed was so fixated on the server-side issue that this completely slipped by me. I guess it's only relevant to one particular Android version and a handful of Linux-based versions where patching is expected to occur automatically and quickly, and nobody cares about desktop Linux.

I wonder how many different ways you can trick a server into accessing a HTTPS site. Seems like lots of services check links in comments or load remote images or run webhooks...

I can definitely see how a server could slip through the cracks if it has a broken HTTPS client, but the site it's serving is fine. No automated scanner is gonna pick that up from the outside.

Re: Heartleech: Automated OpenSSL private key extraction tool using Heartbleed

#42

Post by danielweber »

makomk wrote: post #30
eli wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would imagine the motivation is less about money and more about having fun breaking stuff (and bragging rights). I agree though. Hard to argue that this particular security issue needed any extra attention in order to get it fixed.

It's quite easy to argue that actually. People pointed out that those Snort and other IDS rules were inadequate as soon as they were released, yet it hasn't stopped vendors from claiming they offer protection.

I totally understand the desire to tweak the IDS vendors. Having spent a lot of time working for vendors in that space, they often need tweaking.

But I don't get the leap from "IDS vendors suck" to "I made a command-line tool so any idiot can suck down private keys from a server." If the idea was to show that the IDS rules sucked, then just release a slightly different version of the previous heartbleed testers that gets around it.

But that's not as much fun.

Re: Heartleech: Automated OpenSSL private key extraction tool using Heartbleed

#43

Post by djcapelis »

danielweber wrote: post #17

This should be a useful tool on its own, but I wrote it primarily because the pattern-matching rules for Snort are inadequate. IDS vendors won't fix their stuff until I can prove they are inadequate. Ugh. In the old days the mantra of full-disclosure was "well, if we don't make exploit tools, then the vendors won't issue patches." And then it became "well, if we don't make exploit tools, then the sysadmins won't patc…

Everytime someone writes a tool to show what is possible in public, there's some jerk giving them a hard time about it. Don't be that jerk. The function of the security community is to help people realize when they're not safe. No one likes having their bubble burst, but it's important that it get burst or people don't fix the problems. We've seen this over, and over, and over. Find a good way to improve security that is nicer for everyone involved and actually works and a lot of people in the community will listen and will legitimately care, promise.

Re: Heartleech: Automated OpenSSL private key extraction tool using Heartbleed

#44

Post by simias »

danielweber wrote: post #17

This should be a useful tool on its own, but I wrote it primarily because the pattern-matching rules for Snort are inadequate. IDS vendors won't fix their stuff until I can prove they are inadequate. Ugh. In the old days the mantra of full-disclosure was "well, if we don't make exploit tools, then the vendors won't issue patches." And then it became "well, if we don't make exploit tools, then the sysadmins won't patc…

Meh, do you think "the bad guys" waited for this guy to publish his tool to make their own version?

I agree his justification is a bit weak, but in my opinion he doesn't need any justification at all, if you haven't patched your OpenSSL version yet you're no more vulnerable today than you were tomorrow IMO, it's already too late.

It's not like he released a 0-day exploit into the wild.

Re: Heartleech: Automated OpenSSL private key extraction tool using Heartbleed

#45

Post by rdl »

danielweber wrote: post #17

This should be a useful tool on its own, but I wrote it primarily because the pattern-matching rules for Snort are inadequate. IDS vendors won't fix their stuff until I can prove they are inadequate. Ugh. In the old days the mantra of full-disclosure was "well, if we don't make exploit tools, then the vendors won't issue patches." And then it became "well, if we don't make exploit tools, then the sysadmins won't patc…

End users are more likely to pressure their vendors for better security in the future if they suffer more pain today.

Re: Heartleech: Automated OpenSSL private key extraction tool using Heartbleed

#46

Post by jameshart »

While I know private keys are important and you really don't want to leak them, I have to wonder if the security community's focus on the private keys as the crown jewels that heartbleed accesses is a little misplaced.

If someone can steal your private key, yes, they can now impersonate your SSL server. For HTTPS, they'll need to actually perform a DNS spoof or similar to truly exploit that change, though. I guess there might be more of a concern about things like DKIM keys being stolen. We have to be a little less trusting of SSL certs to verify identity.

But in all this fuss about the keys, we seem to be forgetting that the heartbleed vulnerability allowed attackers to sniff random cleartext as it passed through OpenSSL. Session identities, usernames, passwords, sure - but again, the security industry focuses on credentials being stolen as the worst case scenario. But what about all the other private data going across the SSL connection?

This reminds me a little of the focus on operating system security preventing privilege escalation, while ignoring the risk of malware trashing all of a user's own data - you might lose all your photographs, but at least the device drivers will be safe.

When it comes to heartbleed, users might legitimately fear that data they sent over SSL could have been eavesdropped by anybody; but the security industry doesn't seem to care about that as much as it does about whether the private key could have been compromised.

Re: Heartleech: Automated OpenSSL private key extraction tool using Heartbleed

#47

Post by lawnchair_larry »

Pxtl wrote: post #22
happyscrappy wrote: post #20

Will these automated tools work on vulnerable Android devices? If so this seems a little irresponsible, I mean it is one thing to stick it to lazy sysadmins but making it easy to exploit peoples phones seems evil.

I'm confused how openSSL on Android is a problem... isn't openSSL a server technology? Do the clients use a heartbeat for something? Or is this only relevant when you're running a server on your client device? Is OpenSSL always running as a server on Android?

No, OpenSSL is equally for clients and servers. It's a general purpose crypto library. You can use it in anything to do with crypto.

Re: Heartleech: Automated OpenSSL private key extraction tool using Heartbleed

#48

Post by deeviant »

jameshart wrote: post #46

While I know private keys are important and you really don't want to leak them, I have to wonder if the security community's focus on the private keys as the crown jewels that heartbleed accesses is a little misplaced. If someone can steal your private key, yes, they can now impersonate your SSL server. For HTTPS, they'll need to actually perform a DNS spoof or similar to truly exploit that change, though. I guess th…

"If someone can steal your private key, yes, they can now impersonate your SSL server."

I don't understand this comment. If they steal your private key, they can impersonate the client and do everything the client can do. I don't understand the "impersonate the SSL server".

If they steal the public key, then they can impersonate the server.

Re: Heartleech: Automated OpenSSL private key extraction tool using Heartbleed

#49

Post by NoodleIncident »

jameshart wrote: post #46

While I know private keys are important and you really don't want to leak them, I have to wonder if the security community's focus on the private keys as the crown jewels that heartbleed accesses is a little misplaced. If someone can steal your private key, yes, they can now impersonate your SSL server. For HTTPS, they'll need to actually perform a DNS spoof or similar to truly exploit that change, though. I guess th…

Preface: I don't understand this stuff much at all.

I was under the impression that stuff gets encrypted with the public key, and can only be decrypted with the private key. Doesn't owning the private key let you snoop on all traffic, all of the time, forever until they change the keys?

Re: Heartleech: Automated OpenSSL private key extraction tool using Heartbleed

#50

Post by nitrogen »

danielweber wrote: post #26
eli wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would imagine the motivation is less about money and more about having fun breaking stuff (and bragging rights). I agree though. Hard to argue that this particular security issue needed any extra attention in order to get it fixed.

One of the biggest root causes of problems in the security industry is that often the only way to make a name for yourself is to cause pain to others. (It's not too hard to convince yourself that those others deserved it.) If you went back in time two years and fixed the Heartbleed bug, no one would be writing newspaper articles about you.

If you invented time travel people would definitely be writing about it.
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