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Tesla Model S – Cost of Ownership vs. Honda Odyssey

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Re: Tesla Model S – Cost of Ownership vs. Honda Odyssey

#41

Post by bsilvereagle »

natural219 wrote: post #19

I have also ran similar calculations in my head. I think what I'd want to be convinced is a thorough analysis from a mechanical/industrial engineer on how much you can expect to save from a fully electric car on maintenance. The claim I've heard from Tesla is that, since there are much fewer moving parts within an electric motor, the car will last substantially longer. While this makes intuitive sense, I would love t…

> fewer moving parts

I think auto makers use this to distract potential buyers from what's really going to be replaced: the battery.

Just like laptop batteries, the charge life of the car battery is going to decrease with time.

Tesla did have this on their website, but the link this is quoted from is broken:

"A Battery Replacement Option will be available for purchase soon. The option allows you to pre-purchase a new battery to be installed after eight years for a fixed price: $8,000 for 40 kWh batteries, $10,000 for 60 kWh batteries, and $12,000 for 85 kWh batteries."

http://www.teslamotors.com/it_IT/forum/forums/battery-replac...

Re: Tesla Model S – Cost of Ownership vs. Honda Odyssey

#43

Post by 001sky »

natural219 wrote: post #19

I have also ran similar calculations in my head. I think what I'd want to be convinced is a thorough analysis from a mechanical/industrial engineer on how much you can expect to save from a fully electric car on maintenance. The claim I've heard from Tesla is that, since there are much fewer moving parts within an electric motor, the car will last substantially longer. While this makes intuitive sense, I would love t…

The spreadsheet seems light on maintenance numbers. The car is sold in year 8 but hasn't been serviced in several years previous (seems odd). Most people correct for this come the residual. Also, the tires on this car wear out quickly. 120k miles would see at least 6x sets of tires in the back (some are going in under 10k miles), and likely 4 in the front (20x$400=8,000). Also, the Battery is expensive and shoudl be replaced around 100K most likely ($8,000+). These costs would be substantial in total, but the author also forgets Insurance. We've seen Tesla re-design the underbody most likely for insurance rather than pure safety reasons. This is likely ($15-20K) of omitted cost. Lastly, brakes are typically replaced @ 30K miles and on a car of this caliber would be ($4,000) over this timeframe. That is another $40,000 out of pocket on the back of a napkin. It could be more or less, but the spreadsheet shows <$4,000 which seems off by an order of magnitude.

Re: Tesla Model S – Cost of Ownership vs. Honda Odyssey

#44

Post by mikeash »

jesusmichael wrote: post #33
natural219 wrote: post #19

I have also ran similar calculations in my head. I think what I'd want to be convinced is a thorough analysis from a mechanical/industrial engineer on how much you can expect to save from a fully electric car on maintenance. The claim I've heard from Tesla is that, since there are much fewer moving parts within an electric motor, the car will last substantially longer. While this makes intuitive sense, I would love t…

The statement that electric motors have fewer moving parts so they last substantially longer is a fallacy that electric car proponents have been spreading for years. There are still many, moving parts which require servicing and can fail at a rate of similarly serviced gas engines. In fact servicing (rewinding) is quite a labor intensive and expensive operation, given the price of copper or other conductive material…

Tesla doesn't seem to think their motors require oil changes. Are you saying that they're just letting their owners destroy the motors by going without necessary maintenance?

Also, do you have a source on the $24,000 for their motor? That seems awfully high given that the thing is about the size of a loaf of bread. Hard to see what could make it so expensive.

Re: Tesla Model S – Cost of Ownership vs. Honda Odyssey

#45

Post by jusben1369 »

dave1619 wrote: post #35

To help some understand why the Model S could be "cheaper" to own vs a Honda Odyssey it's important to understand a few factors: 1. Low fuel costs - electricity is way cheaper than gas and when you factor in gas savings over 8 years, you get substantial savings (ie., $20k over 8 years if driving 15k miles a year, of course depends on gas prices and electricity prices). 2. Low maintenance costs - there's no oil change…

How much is a replacement battery?

EDIT: found the answer below. Seems like that contradicts your post a little.

Re: Tesla Model S – Cost of Ownership vs. Honda Odyssey

#46

Post by plg »

plg wrote: post #38

What about ruggedness? Up here in (eastern) Canada we have stretches of weeks even months where the temp doesn't go above ... 10F? 15F? (-10 to -15 C) and frequently goes down to -20C or lower (below zero F). How does this affect battery range? Also I don't live in a big city, so who in the hell do I call when there's something wrong with my Tesla and how long do I wait?

also NPV is nice and all, but if you have $5k for a downpayment and you need to finance the rest, there aren't many people who can afford a $95k car loan. Not to mention the interest cost.

Hey don't get me wrong, I think Tesla is the future and I would love to own one... but it seems like a "not ready yet" proposition

Re: Tesla Model S – Cost of Ownership vs. Honda Odyssey

#47

Post by bsilvereagle »

jusben1369 wrote: post #45
dave1619 wrote: post #35

To help some understand why the Model S could be "cheaper" to own vs a Honda Odyssey it's important to understand a few factors: 1. Low fuel costs - electricity is way cheaper than gas and when you factor in gas savings over 8 years, you get substantial savings (ie., $20k over 8 years if driving 15k miles a year, of course depends on gas prices and electricity prices). 2. Low maintenance costs - there's no oil change…

How much is a replacement battery? EDIT: found the answer below. Seems like that contradicts your post a little.

"A Battery Replacement Option will be available for purchase soon. The option allows you to pre-purchase a new battery to be installed after eight years for a fixed price: $8,000 for 40 kWh batteries, $10,000 for 60 kWh batteries, and $12,000 for 85 kWh batteries."

http://www.teslamotors.com/it_IT/forum/forums/battery-replac...

Re: Tesla Model S – Cost of Ownership vs. Honda Odyssey

#48

Post by mikeash »

001sky wrote: post #43
natural219 wrote: post #19

I have also ran similar calculations in my head. I think what I'd want to be convinced is a thorough analysis from a mechanical/industrial engineer on how much you can expect to save from a fully electric car on maintenance. The claim I've heard from Tesla is that, since there are much fewer moving parts within an electric motor, the car will last substantially longer. While this makes intuitive sense, I would love t…

The spreadsheet seems light on maintenance numbers. The car is sold in year 8 but hasn't been serviced in several years previous (seems odd). Most people correct for this come the residual. Also, the tires on this car wear out quickly. 120k miles would see at least 6x sets of tires in the back (some are going in under 10k miles), and likely 4 in the front (20x$400=8,000). Also, the Battery is expensive and shoudl be…

Tesla brakes last practically forever because they're almost never used. Regenerative braking is used for normal driving and the mechanical brakes are just there for hard braking, emergencies, and possibly at very low speeds. So I think you can take that back out of your numbers. Leaving out insurance seems really bizarre though.

Re: Tesla Model S – Cost of Ownership vs. Honda Odyssey

#49

Post by pakile »

zyang wrote: post #4

Would you buy an eight year used Tesla for 30k? I'm a fan of Tesla and hope to be an owner some day, but I think the author is being overly optimistic here.

This is definitely an important factor in the model. The frame of mind I tried to use is, what would I pay today, in 2014, for a luxury car of Tesla caliber that is, say, Model Year 2006?

Then I took a few other things into account: - Quantitatively, given the paucity of data on Model S resales (I've looked at this and I think prices are high because supply is low), what does depreciation history on the Roadster imply for the Model S looking forward? - Qualitatively, what is the impact of a battery swap say 8 or 10 years down the line, if the cost of the battery is approximately $12K (based on Tesla's earlier comments and the Roadster battery swap program) or less (if the Gigafactory succeeds)?

Re: Tesla Model S – Cost of Ownership vs. Honda Odyssey

#50

Post by pakile »

bpowah wrote: post #36

I don't understand how the '14 model S is "AWD equivalent".

Scroll down to "Cold Weather Performance" on this page:

http://www.teslamotors.com/models/features#/performance

I forgot to write about this on www.teslacost.com, but one reason I didn't consider the Model S early on is b/c it's RWD and I wanted AWD for Tahoe and the like. Then I saw the above video.

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