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Bringing Silicon Valley to the Midwest

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Re: Bringing Silicon Valley to the Midwest

#41

Post by mbesto »

jakestl wrote: post #2

As a Midwesterner, I am slightly put off by the use of the term "outsourcing" in the title. Considering the term wasn't used in the article I feel it carries negative connotation. Maybe I am reading too deeply into this...

Someone put that in the HN title, the original article does not (for it's worth, I've flagged it thus).

Also, virtually every company in the world outsources. Do you use an external account for tax compliance? Outsourcing. Do you have a lawyer that's on a contract? Outsourcing. You got that advertisement created for your online ad campaign from a marketing company? Outsourcing.

Using the word outsourcing here is not correct. They are paying full-time employees and managing them as such.

Re: Bringing Silicon Valley to the Midwest

#42

Post by [deleted] »

nanidin wrote: post #37
bane wrote: post #7

This is potentially a great way to go and solve the "engineering shortage" in the U.S. There are tons of qualified engineers in places all over the U.S., but S.V. never bothers to look for them. The great side benefit is that the cost of living in most of the U.S. is much lower than on the coasts meaning you can almost get 2 people in nowhere Alabama or Nashville, Someplace for the price of 1 San Franciscan or 1 New…

I don't see how two people producing the same output deserve different salaries based on where they live - why should geographic location dictate my salary relative to my peers?

[deleted]

Re: Bringing Silicon Valley to the Midwest

#43

Post by dlokshin »

nanidin wrote: post #37
bane wrote: post #7

This is potentially a great way to go and solve the "engineering shortage" in the U.S. There are tons of qualified engineers in places all over the U.S., but S.V. never bothers to look for them. The great side benefit is that the cost of living in most of the U.S. is much lower than on the coasts meaning you can almost get 2 people in nowhere Alabama or Nashville, Someplace for the price of 1 San Franciscan or 1 New…

I don't see how two people producing the same output deserve different salaries based on where they live - why should geographic location dictate my salary relative to my peers?

Because demand is less. The wage is still dictated by supply and demand. The supply is probably less, but the demand for that labor is far less. The demand for an engineer in the midwest is higher than the demand for an engineer in Thailand because there are less time barriers, language barriers, etc.

A house in Palo Alto, CA costs more than the exact same house in Dexter, Michigan. If they were made of the exact same materials on the exact same size of land, you wouldn't expect them to cost the same either.

Re: Bringing Silicon Valley to the Midwest

#44

Post by platz »

Pyrodogg wrote: post #38

The Valley != Access to Tech Jobs Most of the Midwest doesn't have a dying need for "The Valley". This article reads a bit like SV is the saving grace of the Midwest, If only those people had access to tech. I think there's a very healthy tech scene in many areas of the Midwest. I live in Minneapolis and there are plenty of local companies doing well with local people. There are also quite a few local resources for e…

St. Louis too, although I am Chicago

Re: Bringing Silicon Valley to the Midwest

#45

Post by mason240 »

columbo wrote: post #17
jakestl wrote: post #2

As a Midwesterner, I am slightly put off by the use of the term "outsourcing" in the title. Considering the term wasn't used in the article I feel it carries negative connotation. Maybe I am reading too deeply into this...

The buzzword term I've seen used is "Onshoring", also, fellow midwesterner here

One company in Duluth MN calls it "Offshore to the North Shore"

Re: Bringing Silicon Valley to the Midwest

#46

Post by aidenn0 »

Pyrodogg wrote: post #38

The Valley != Access to Tech Jobs Most of the Midwest doesn't have a dying need for "The Valley". This article reads a bit like SV is the saving grace of the Midwest, If only those people had access to tech. I think there's a very healthy tech scene in many areas of the Midwest. I live in Minneapolis and there are plenty of local companies doing well with local people. There are also quite a few local resources for e…

When I graduated Purdue, 9 years ago, there was very little in the way of software jobs at least (And I got the impression that the top companeis hiring Mech E and EE students could be as selective as they wanted). I had to go to one of the coasts to get a sane offer.

The only real job offer I got in Indiana was a one year contract for $30k/year in Fort Wayne, which was less than half the salary for the non-contract position I took in California. There is no sane cost of living adjustment that will cause those to be comparable.

Re: Bringing Silicon Valley to the Midwest

#47

Post by alistairSH »

nanidin wrote: post #37
bane wrote: post #7

This is potentially a great way to go and solve the "engineering shortage" in the U.S. There are tons of qualified engineers in places all over the U.S., but S.V. never bothers to look for them. The great side benefit is that the cost of living in most of the U.S. is much lower than on the coasts meaning you can almost get 2 people in nowhere Alabama or Nashville, Someplace for the price of 1 San Franciscan or 1 New…

I don't see how two people producing the same output deserve different salaries based on where they live - why should geographic location dictate my salary relative to my peers?

Market forces. Just like anything else - supply and demand.

Don't think of it in terms of gross dollars. Think of it in terms of standard of living. A skilled engineer is going to have an upper-middle-class standard of living, regardless of location.

Re: Bringing Silicon Valley to the Midwest

#48

Post by aidenn0 »

wyclif wrote: post #12
enjo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to admit, as a fly-over stater (Colorado) I found the tone be pretty condescending. There's an air of "we're moving the stuff people in the valley are to smart to do" to it. I'm not sure if it's intended, but it seems like they think the midwest is only good for the entry level. That really amazing developers don't exist outside of the valley. If that's true, I for one hope they don't change their position. We…

Is it possible to get an entry-level engineering job in the Valley today? It doesn't seem like that's common at all. So if you're just starting out and particularly if you don't happen to have a boutique degree, where are you going to start at entry level as a developer? To me, it sounds like a great way to hire.

The company I work for hires at the entry-level pretty much constantly.

Re: Bringing Silicon Valley to the Midwest

#50

Post by nanidin »

dlokshin wrote: post #43
nanidin wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how two people producing the same output deserve different salaries based on where they live - why should geographic location dictate my salary relative to my peers?

Because demand is less. The wage is still dictated by supply and demand. The supply is probably less, but the demand for that labor is far less. The demand for an engineer in the midwest is higher than the demand for an engineer in Thailand because there are less time barriers, language barriers, etc. A house in Palo Alto, CA costs more than the exact same house in Dexter, Michigan. If they were made of the exact sam…

I don't think the house comparison is a good example - a house in Palo Alto can only be utilised in Palo Alto. A remote worker could work from anywhere and produce the same output, regardless of location.

Pay levels based on location seem like a good way for companies to "save" money by providing a convenient excuse to pay someone less for the same work.

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