The Hypocrisy Of Sam Yagan and OkCupid • Hacker News Board

Re: The Hypocrisy Of Sam Yagan and OkCupid

#171

Post by thatthatis » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 7:35 PM UTC

There's an enormous false equivalency here:

Prop 8 groups are single issue donations. A donation means exactly and only that you agree with the cause of anti-gay marriage.

Politicians are many-thousand issue donations. I know of exactly zero people who I agree with on everything. A donation to a politician can have thousands of motives, and even be done in staunch disagreement about certain issues (especially in the case where their opponent is the same on the issue you disagree with and worse on everything else)

On net I'm conflicted about the whole thing. But I do think that people who value tolerance should be intolerant of the intolerant.

Re: The Hypocrisy Of Sam Yagan and OkCupid

#172

Post by krainboltgreene » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 7:35 PM UTC

bambax wrote: post #118

pyduan wrote: post #47

What is regrettable in all this is that no one seems to consider the possibility that people may have nuanced views about gay marriage. According to the mob you're either a saint or a bigot, and thus Eich's value as a human being was supposedly entirely determined by this one opinion he voiced in 2008. I'm staunchly in favor of gay marriage, which I consider to be a no-brainer -- but it seems to me the motivations of…

This is really not the point at all; we're way way past the debate pro- or against- gay marriage. (Disclaimer: like probably 99% of people on HN, I'm strongly in favor of gay marriage). The point(s) are: - is it acceptable to hunt a man down and force him to step down from a job he's highly qualified for, because he has held in the past political opinions that not only differ from your own, but were then mainstream a…

Jesus, "hunt a man down" and "ruin a man's (otherwise impeccable) professional life"?

You have a really low bar for using these phrases and it makes your argument that much more ridiculous (and false).

None of these things happened and you miss half the context in which similar but less hyperbolic things happened.

Re: The Hypocrisy Of Sam Yagan and OkCupid

#173

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 7:36 PM UTC

anonbanker wrote: post #86

bp123 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the world would be a better place if all anti-equality people had donated $1000 to fund constitutional amendments preventing gay marriage. Please. You can't pretend to be a good citizen for equality while donating $1000 to a cause whose only purpose is anti-equality. And look, he could of just apologized and he would have been fine. He didn't. That is why I find this backlash backlash to be just "mob justice" th…

What a fantastic strawman you've constructed! Give me a minute to marvel at it. You do excellent work. Okay, now that the dazzle has worn off, perhaps you could tell me when I said that Anti-gay activists donating money to fund constitutional amendments would be a good thing? because I really don't remember saying that. However, I agree with your second paragraph. You can't be a good citizen for equality while donati…

[deleted]

Re: The Hypocrisy Of Sam Yagan and OkCupid

#174

Post by anonbanker » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 7:36 PM UTC

Malus wrote: post #114

anonbanker wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive the nitpick, but I'm not sure Lars makes great Music. Cliff wrote all the early material. All the stuff now is written by Kirk/James, and then the producer has the final say. I'm not sure I can think of a song he's written that I enjoy. Can you? However, you may be right that Lars is the biggest asshole in music. how many people (other than Prince) sue their fans? how many people flaunt their massive art coll…

Lars may be an asshole, but it is unfair to say that he made less of a contribution to the writing that Cliff did. Lars has writing credits on 8 tracks of Kill'Em All [0], 8 tracks of Ride the Lightning [1], 8 tracks of Master of Puppets [2], and 9 tracks of ...And Justice for All [3], whereas Cliff only has 1, 6, 3, and 1 tracks on said albums respectively. Furthermore, James wrote nearly all of the lyrics himself,…

Wow. I was wrong. this changes everything.

And now, the only answer I have for "why does everything post-Justice suck so much?" is "Bob Rock" and "Rick Rubin".

Re: The Hypocrisy Of Sam Yagan and OkCupid

#175

Post by krainboltgreene » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 7:37 PM UTC

anonbanker wrote: post #139

commanda wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really irks me when people conflate calling for someone to step down from a CEO role with "lynching", "blood", or "militant". As you know, actual LGBTQ people are actually lynched, and our blood is actually shed. Your metaphors are, frankly, offensive. (disclosure: I am also a member of the LGBTQ community.)

right. ignore the validity of my comments. just take offense to the words. Whilst living in Montana, I have been harrassed multiple times for my sexuality. I have been beaten to unconsciousness by people I didn't even see approaching me, left with a sign saying "HOMO" on my body. I have had a rope around my neck, and three men lift my drugged body to a tree so I could die. Thankfully, a less bigoted person scared the…

You sound terribly un-empathetic and it ruins any point you're trying to make.

Re: The Hypocrisy Of Sam Yagan and OkCupid

#176

Post by hackinthebochs » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 7:37 PM UTC

Karunamon wrote: post #93

dubfan wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, the anti-gay-marriage crowd doesn't see it that way. Marriage has historically been a religious ceremony, and by legalizing gay marriage we're codifying what opponents view as an assault on their deeply-held religious beliefs. You might say they are wrong, and you're entitled to say that in our free society. Where my problem comes in is when we try to stamp out any opposing view with the trump card of "bigotry".…

> Marriage has historically been a religious ceremony This is patently false. Religion does not hold a monopoly of any kind on the concept of matrimony. There is a massive problem with your view. You think a religious belief holds any legal sway. It does not. Laws based on religious overtones are absolutely forbidden by the supreme law of the land. This might be different in other countries, but here? No law concerni…

>Religion does not hold a monopoly of any kind on the concept of matrimony.

Neither does government, so why does it matter what government calls it?

Re: The Hypocrisy Of Sam Yagan and OkCupid

#177

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 7:37 PM UTC

wwwwwwwwww wrote: post #89

scarmig wrote: post #16

No, it's not "exactly the same." I don't think anyone really benefited from this entire shit show, but stop trying to excuse and water down what Prop 8 supporters did. Giving money to a bad politician is not the same as giving money to support a war of pure bigotry and hatred against gay people. Perhaps you weren't there in 2008, or perhaps you weren't a target. But the Yes on Prop 8 campaign deployed deeply disturbi…

Is it really so hard for you to imagine that not everyone comes from the same background and upbringing? Moreover, is it so hard to believe that not everyone who supported prop8 was a gay-hating bigot who wants to see them all burn in hell or whatever? With every political standpoint, there is a spectrum of supporters who support the cause - for varying reasons and varying intensity. It's very important to keep this…

[deleted]

Re: The Hypocrisy Of Sam Yagan and OkCupid

#178

Post by seertaak » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 7:37 PM UTC

anonbanker wrote: post #147

seertaak wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Karunamon states, no more evidence is needed than his financial support for a bigoted law, and his subsequent failure to rescind this support. It's kind of sad that this needs to be repeated so often, but Proposition 8 was an attempt to limit the rights of a minority of the population (a minority I happen to belong to, as a bisexual man). It is an unprovoked act of aggression -- bullying, if you want. If Eich had…

So, I can interpret your reply as "no. I could not find any examples of Brendan Eich saying that gays were second-class citizens." I appreciate your agreement in this.

I do agree and I think it's really swell that you appreciate my agreement.

Re: The Hypocrisy Of Sam Yagan and OkCupid

#179

Post by Sniffnoy » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 7:37 PM UTC

baddox wrote: post #88

masklinn wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, there are people who have nothing against homosexuality but are attached to the symbolic value of 'marriage' as a Christian institution Yes, they were also attached to its symbolic value when they used it to condemn miscegenation. Given atheist, muslims, jews or hindus can get married, and so can blacks, browns, reds, yellows and whites (with one another too, which once upon a time was against "the sym…

It has nothing to do both "separate but equal" if the only difference is the legal term used ("marriage" for heterosexual couple, "civil union" for homosexual couple) and not the rights associated with it. Separate but equal was about physical segregation of minorities, not just about using different legal terms for the same thing. And, by the way, something that a ton of people don't know about the separate but equa…

It's worth pointing out here that having it be a unified institution means the way it works in the one case and the other case are tied together (unless you introduce an explicit distinction). Having them under two separate umbrellas potentially allows them to drift apart or (more easily compared to the one-umbrella case) simply be changed to be different at a later date.

Re: The Hypocrisy Of Sam Yagan and OkCupid

#180

Post by mason240 » Sun, Apr 06, 2014, 7:37 PM UTC

mkr-hn wrote: post #32

Prediction: those who insisted that political actions and professional life should be separate will call for Sam Yagan's head, completing the ouroboros of hypocrisy. The author's basis for the claim that this was a PR stunt is that Sam Yagan made a donation similar to Brendan Eich's. Like Brendan Eich, he has the opportunity to say he's changed his mind on the issue in the years since, or provide more context for the…

Prediction: those who insisted that political actions and professional life should be one and the same will respond with "meh," completing the ouroboros of hypocrisy.