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Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

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Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#921
post #841

This is sad. I wish I lived in a world where your personal beliefs, even very unpopular ones, could be kept separate from your professional life. Unfortunately we seem to need to put people in a single box.

It's also about his ability to be a leader, if people lost the ability to respect him then he looses the ability to lead. That happened, he had to go.

Exactly! Humans are imperfect they lose "the ability to respect" for irrelevant reasons. Just like people couldn't believe in General Relativity because Einstein was Jewish.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#922
post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the community has pressured him to step down because he expressed an opinion not held by the majority. That's not true. The fact that the majority believe the idea was necessary for the pressure to be applied, but it is not why the pressure was applied. The pressure was applied because his views trample on others' rights, and equal rights is philosophically closely tied with the entire mission of an organization li…

> his views trample on others' rights No; I don't agree with Eich's views, but merely having those views does not implicate anyone else's rights in any way at all. Rights are violated by actions , not merely by expressing distasteful opinions.

It's shocking and irritating to me that the three of the replies pointing out the strictly false nature of your post are all downvoted while your post sits inexplicably positive.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#923
post #867
post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. How many people would be in here saying this is a free-speech issue if he had donated money to support a law against marriages between people of different races? It is absolutely about human rights, and I applaud the community for drawing a red line on this.

People keep bringing up interracial marriage, but really it's a red herring. Interracial marriage does not involve a fundamental change to the way marriage works. Furthermore, in practice it is not enforceable, since you would have to know someone's entire ancestry to know whether they were eligible to marry another person. Anyway, to answer your question: If I found out that my CEO had donated to an anti-interracial…

"Furthermore, in practice it is not enforceable, since you would have to know someone's entire ancestry to know whether they were eligible to marry another person."

Not true! Knowing someone's entire ancestry since the beginning of H. s. sapiens may be impossible, but less-rigorous standards of discrimination are practical to implement.

Nazi Germany defined how Jewish someone was based on their number of Jewish grandparents. This means checking genealogical and religious records back two generations. I've heard that some positions, like the SS, required proving your ancestry back to 1750. I don't know how many people were certified, or how extensive the research was -- could someone walk into an office with a few badly-copied baptismal records and get their "I can marry a German" card stamped? did it require checking government databases? -- but it must have been a large number.

The existence of terms such as quadroon and even octoroon show that people of centuries past seriously considered and even legalized notions of how 'black' people were, but I have no idea how well-implemented they were in practice. (I imagine there was a lot more "yeah, you look white enough" and a lot less "please come back tomorrow after I've telegraphed the Census office".)

My brain kind of needs a shower now.

Edit:

My knowledge of these subjects is limited to about 90 minutes of reading Wikipedia, by the way. I was vague enough that I don't think anything I stated is actually wrong.

Incidentally, apparently Nazi Germany had a scandalous number of women who suddenly admitted under oath that their children were the product of an extramarital affair with a conveniently non-Jewish and dead family friend. How well this worked may have depended on how well-connected you were. The senior Luftwaffe officer Erhard Milch is a prominent example.

Edit again:

If your point was "in practice it is not enforceable", mine was that it was enforceable enough that a lot of people put a lot of effort into trying, even if they didn't pull it off perfectly.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#924

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said he gets a free pass? Our election system is deliberately designed and maintained so that only two parties--only two candidates--matter. That sucks, and I'd change it if I could, but in the meantime my options are to either stay home, which accomplishes nothing; vote for a third-party candidate, which shows admirable idealism but is also unlikely to accomplish anything; or vote for the lesser of two evils, wh…

This is the fallacy that maintains the system you complain about. Voting for a 3rd party supports that party and gains them publicity. Just because they don't win (this time) doesn't mean it's wasted. By your reasoning, any vote for a losing party is wasted, so you should only vote according to the latest poll figures. However all options are guaranteed to produce many of the results you want. The greater of two evil…

How well did third parties do after Nader in 2000, or Perot in the 90's? This seems like a glaring counter-example to your argument, don't you think?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#925
post #890

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep hearing people saying that gay marriage is more than just a political view, but so is every other political view. Don't support welfare? You're against poor people. Support welfare? You're against the working man. You're pro-choice? You're against babies. You're pro-life? You're against women. Pretty much every political stance can be viewed in the same fashion as people are viewing Eich's. The thing is, Eich…

Don't support welfare? You're against poor people. Support welfare? You're against the working man. You're pro-choice? You're against babies. You're pro-life? You're against women your black or white stance is a logical fallacy.

That's precisely the point - people are portraying Eich as being against gays because he doesn't support gay marriage, which is a logical fallacy.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#927

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the question you have to ask is, who is responsible for Eich's ouster? To the extent it was primarily Mozilla employees, I don't think there's a problem. If they feel they can't work for this man, for any reason, they have the right to say so. If the Board finds that enough employees object to him, they can and should find someone else. If it was primarily public opinion, I agree that that's unfortunate. I do…

You're not going to find ~1000 people who "collectively", without dissenters, support anything unless you picked those people on the basis of their support for that one thing. The public info I see has several employees not supporting Brendan as CEO, a few more not supporting the bad PR having Brendan as CEO will produce, and some more supporting him being CEO, with the vast majority of employees keeping quiet. Not l…

Personally, I am worried not only for Brendan Eich, but all future CEOs that will encounter similar problems. BTW, do you know why the Twitter account got deleted?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#928
post #873

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting money behind Prop 8 helped strip a civil right from gay people. It's technically true that proves nothing about Eich's beliefs. Heck, maybe it was Eich's personal Opposite Day. But does it matter? Even the bible says, "You will know them by their fruits," meaning that it's reasonable to judge people by what they do. The pseudo-gotcha about tolerance is ridiculous, an accusation of hypocrisy based on a straw m…

Hey, if we're gonna go quoting that book, I believe there was something about throwing the first stone.

...at anyone who works on Saturday. (Numbers 15:32-56)

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#929
"Mozilla prides itself on being held to a different standard and, this past week, we didn’t live up to it"...

Bla bla, shame on these platitudes!

Bad times when a ceo no longer can act according to his opinion (in private). Reflects very badly upon Mozilla: no spine, get rid of Eich and talk about 'we are stronger with you involved'.

Deeply disappointed (and fwiw i'm pro gay marriage).

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#930
post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holding an unpopular opinion that is all about increasing fairness and equality (racial equality, feminism, gay rights, etc.) is completely different than holding one that is about decreasing fairness and equality. We cannot compare Eich's position of denying a freedom to some people to those of the people who stood for racial equality and feminism.

AFAIK, Eich donated $1000 to an organization that put the following amendment into the CA constitution: "Sec. 7.5. Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California." That's not "denying a freedom", that's defining a population who will receive certain benefits. It's a normal part of democracy. Just like when a government body defines "poverty line" to mean $XXX income, for the purposes of…

Defining marriage as being between a man and woman isn't like giving food stamps to poor people.

The bottom line for me is that America is supposed to be a place of freedom and equality. If we're going to say that a man and woman can get married, then we have to say that two men or two women can also get married (assuming consenting adults, etc.).

Food stamps are different. They're about helping out people who are struggling to survive (at least that's the idea. Don't want to turn this into an argument about food stamps).

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