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Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

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Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#431

Post by xaa »

My father-in-law is a high-level official in the "Alliance Defending Freedom", which is essentially the conservative counterpart to the ACLU, providing legal advice to conservative causes.

For years, he's been telling me about the "gay liberal agenda", which, to him, was not just about promoting gay rights, but also about silencing any freedom of speech advocating opposing viewpoints. I always pooh-poohed him and gently asserted that he was on the wrong side of history.

Now, I think he's right. That someone can be ousted from their job because of privately held opinions and personal donations is extremely scary to me -- and I'm in favor of gay rights and gay marriage. You can't correct injustice and intolerance with more injustice and intolerance.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#432

Post by hackinthebochs »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #359
hackinthebochs wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the culture we've created for ourselves. The only people who can be in a position of power or publicity must be sanitized to the extreme. Hold a view that isn't mainstream and you will be eviscerated by a mob that has hijacked the media. I guarantee that no one has a completely "right" set of views that won't anger some faction of the population enough to create a mob response. Of course, we still need politi…

"sanitized to the extreme" "Hold a view that isn't mainstream" We're not talking about slightly controversial views, 'colorful' language, or a 'racy' past here, we're talking about out-and-out homophobia, wanting people to be treated as lesser humans simply because of who they love. Please, that is a LONG way from being 'sanitized to the extreme'.

Personally I think your characterization is hyperbole. There are a lot of rational reasons to oppose gay marriage (if you allow one their irrational premises). Opposing the state recognizing gay marriage is far from "treating people as lesser humans".

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#433

Post by jcromartie »

michaelsbradley wrote: post #299

I'm saddened by this development... not terribly surprised, but saddened to the point that I got a sick feeling in my stomach when I read the headline. In all seriousness, should this be seen as a kind of warning/signal? That is, if you take the moral teachings of your church seriously enough to act on them in the context of democratic processes and/or public discourse, then you need not aspire to, apply for or expec…

There is no separation. Secular vs. sacred is an artificial divide, because every action has consequences in reality. Mr. Eich here did not simply take seriously some moral warnings, he acted on them in the form of donations to political organizations which worked to enact laws which affect real people's real lives.

When your job involves leadership of a large publicly visible organization, you are going to want to be on the right side of history slightly in advance of the people under you.

Everybody and everything is connected, and it's not just a matter of your sect vs another. Being at the head of a large organization means having a massive pyramid of people under you, supporting you. That pyramid is composed of an increasingly diverse group of people. It used to be almost entirely white men (imagine IBM or any other major corporation 50 years ago). Now, look at an organization like Mozilla, supported by legions of Internet-connected hackers with a staggeringly diverse range of views on social matters, with one in common: openness and inclusiveness.

You cannot expect a stable platform to lead from if an increasing number of the people who support you find your views that repulsive.

You almost sound like you think that someone owes this guy a CEO job? He could easily find a leadership position with a group composed of people who could support him based on his views.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#435

Post by return0 »

bashinator wrote: post #321
return0 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On top of it, the resignation shines a bad light on gay-marriage activism, nobody likes a bully.

So registering an opinion about the actions of a public figure is bullying, but making a monetary donation to restrict the rights of a minority is not?

I can't believe i have to say it, but donating to a cause, no matter how misguided, is meant to effect the public opinion in a certain way through certain channels. Asking for his job, his head or his property because of his opinions is bullying [mob rule is a better term], not civil discourse!

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#436

Post by jcromartie »

calibraxis wrote: post #341
nostrademons wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This line of reasoning is very troubling to me, because 20 years ago it was pretty much unacceptable in the U.S. to hold the opinion that gays were entitled to full legal rights, let alone the ability to marry. That changed only because some very courageous people stuck their neck out, weathered all the flack and negative personal repercussions towards themselves, and gradually made the point of "Why not?" I fully su…

The two aren't the same. On one hand, you have powerful white guys who sometimes don't get the exact CEO crown they want . (Aww...) On the other, you have oppressed people who face horrors. Social movements who challenge the powerful. If you're black in the US, you're vulnerable to incarceration in the country which is the world's biggest jailer. If you're a woman, you're a target of violence and subordination. If yo…

I'm sure Turing would really cry Eich a river.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#437

Post by clavalle »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #182
kylemaxwell wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. Any opinion is okay but if you are actively working to remove existing rights from other people, you can expect opprobrium. This applies especially when leading an organization with values like Mozilla's.

>but if you are actively working to remove existing rights from other people How is opposing redefining marriage (in the context of law) working to remove existing rights of people? Its framed in terms of removing rights/civil rights because it suits the cause. But this characterization is not supported by a dispassionate reading of the issue here.

Rights are not granted.

Laws merely define approach to Rights.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#439

Post by zorpner »

HillRat wrote: post #318
nostrademons wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This line of reasoning is very troubling to me, because 20 years ago it was pretty much unacceptable in the U.S. to hold the opinion that gays were entitled to full legal rights, let alone the ability to marry. That changed only because some very courageous people stuck their neck out, weathered all the flack and negative personal repercussions towards themselves, and gradually made the point of "Why not?" I fully su…

There's two sides to that -- the first is that, yes, he absolutely has the right to hold any opinion he wants to, no matter how noxious I or others may find them. To paraphrase Hall on Voltaire, I'll defend to the death their right to be assholes. (Full disclosure: pro- gay marriage, anti-Prop 8, not a CA resident, so doesn't really affect me.) On the other hand, there's no absolute right to be a public-facing CEO, a…

This is a terrific comment, and I couldn't agree more -- regardless of Eich's personal views and how they made people feel, the fact that he and Mozilla didn't have statements, interviews, and a PR plan in place for something so obvious is reason enough that he shouldn't be CEO. End of story.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#440

Post by Touche »

OpieCunningham wrote: post #371
Touche wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter what Eich thinks. History isn't going to reverse course so there's no need for those who are wrong to fall to their knees and beg for forgiveness. Being graceful in victory is about letting those who opposed you to get away with their mistake.

How many lives need to be ruined before an oppressed community can fight back? Sainthood should not be a bar that everyone must meet in order to avoid being labeled with a black mark. This guy attacked a large group of people and that group defended itself by explaining their displeasure at his recent privilege. He then suffered the consequence of having his privilege removed. Good.

> How many lives need to be ruined before an oppressed community can fight back?

The oppressed already did fight back and won. This is putting your enemies on trial afterwards.

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