Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO • Hacker News Board

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#291

Post by whyenot » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:50 PM UTC

DangerousPie wrote: post #164

dopamean wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree with you but I think the problem here is that being against gay marriage is more than just a "political view." Being for low taxes is a political view. Being for smaller government is a political view. Believing a certain group of people don't deserve to live their lives like other simply because of who they love is not a political view. It reads as extremely hateful and that makes people uncomforta…

I have heard people mention this distinction before, but it seems a bit arbitrary to me. You and I may agree that this is a universal right that is "not up for discussion", but we can't deny the fact that there is a sizable portion of people that would disagree with us. Many of them believe as strongly that we are wrong as we believe that they are wrong. In my eyes, this shows that there are certainly different viewp…

> In my eyes, this shows that there are certainly different viewpoints on the matter and makes it as political as anything else.

We had the right to marry in California. Proposition 8 took away that right. We gained the same freedom everyone else has and then the proposition Brendan Eich supported took that right away. Of course politics are involved, but you have to understand how hurtful that turn of events was to many in the gay community.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#292

Post by if_by_whisky » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:50 PM UTC

scottmagdalein wrote: post #105

sethbannon wrote: post #57

Comments here are pretty supportive of Brendan but I see this as nothing but a victory for Mozilla and a victory for consumer activism. It should be clear by now that you cannot run a large company in the public eye while you espouse vitriolic and discriminatory views that belong in the last century.

One thing has nothing to do with the other.

You say that like it's obvious. But, empirically speaking, we seem to have evidence that your personal values do impact your qualifications to run a values-driven, public-facing company.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#293

Post by agapos » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:50 PM UTC

danudey wrote: post #220

agapos wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"On the one hand, Brendan Eich had some beliefs that were against Mozilla's core values." Care to elaborate this? Last time I read, the Mozilla Manifeto[1] says nothing about marriage rights or anything marginally related. [1] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/

The Mozilla Manifesto should not be taken to be the total sum of what Mozilla, as an organization, believes. Their Manifesto is about how they believe the internet should behave and be treated, not how the company itself should behave and act with regards to its own employees.

"The Mozilla Manifesto should not be taken to be the total sum of what Mozilla, as an organization, believes."

That's the deal. They all think differently on subjects unrelated to the Manifesto. True, there may be cases where the ratio is 99% against 1%. But it's still there.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#294

Post by zheng » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:51 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #199

danpalmer wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think 'integrity' in the face of an opinion that is becoming more and more unacceptable to hold in our culture is a good thing. Changing your views, and admitting you were wrong is the best thing you can do.

This line of reasoning is very troubling to me, because 20 years ago it was pretty much unacceptable in the U.S. to hold the opinion that gays were entitled to full legal rights, let alone the ability to marry. That changed only because some very courageous people stuck their neck out, weathered all the flack and negative personal repercussions towards themselves, and gradually made the point of "Why not?" I fully su…

Wish I had more upvotes for this. It's surprising how intolerant people become once their opinion becomes the socially acceptable one.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#295

Post by Aloisius » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:51 PM UTC

cousin_it wrote: post #244

adamwong246 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Freedom of Speech" does not mean "Freedom from the Consequences of your Speech."

No, freedom of speech means exactly that people shouldn't be punished for speech. What else could it possibly mean?

No, it means freedom from state censorship and state punishment (imprisonment for instance). The public can punish you all they want.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#296

Post by tetrep » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:51 PM UTC

danpalmer wrote: post #111

nostrademons wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It speaks a lot to his integrity that he didn't. Would you rather have a CEO who says one thing in public and then goes and does another thing surreptitiously, or one who stands up for his beliefs even when they're unpopular?

I don't think 'integrity' in the face of an opinion that is becoming more and more unacceptable to hold in our culture is a good thing. Changing your views, and admitting you were wrong is the best thing you can do.

>...admitting you were wrong...

Therein lies the problem. He clearly does not think he is wrong. If he made an apology it would only be for show.

Lying to appease the masses in this scenario would be no different than is he had the inverse opinion (not discriminating against gays and then telling everyone you do).

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#297

Post by Dewie » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:51 PM UTC

dnr wrote: post #212

DangerousPie wrote: post #45

I am a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I have to say that I find this very unfortunate and worrying. Apparently many Mozilla supporters seem to think it is okay to bully a qualified person out of his job only for his political views, even if they had absolutely no effect on his qualification or his actions on the job. I can't help but feel like this campaign has done a lot more harm to him than his $1000 donati…

One person losing his job, compared to millions of people not being able to marry the person they love? Even if you figure that $1000 as a fraction of the money raised by the campaign, you're still talking about significant emotional harm to hundreds or thousands of people directly affected within CA. But the effects are actually much greater, because the CA decision was not made in a vacuum: it affected public senti…

> But the effects are actually much greater, because the CA decision was not made in a vacuum: it affected public sentiment all over the country, and the world.

Who holds up America as an example/ideal of socially progressive policies? People who are waiting for Americans to lead the way with socially liberal laws might be waiting for a good while.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#298

Post by ceautery » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:51 PM UTC

eif034 wrote: post #154

throwaway137 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That said, I understand he's received wildly disproportionate abuse, like death threats. It must have been difficult for him to receive the same treatment as every sufficiently notable LGBT individual.

Burden of proof is on you to prove that "every sufficiently notable LGBT individual" has received "wildly disproportionate abuse, like death threats".

I don't know that there's a list of famous people including sexual orientation and whether they've received death threats or not. However:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6239098.stm - 17% of UK gay students report receiving death threats

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2008/victims.html - 17% of hate crimes in the US (2008) are related to sexual orientation (mainly against male homosexuals).

I think it would be fair to extrapolate that famous gay people also receive plenty of death threats.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#299

Post by michaelsbradley » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:51 PM UTC

I'm saddened by this development... not terribly surprised, but saddened to the point that I got a sick feeling in my stomach when I read the headline.

In all seriousness, should this be seen as a kind of warning/signal? That is, if you take the moral teachings of your church seriously enough to act on them in the context of democratic processes and/or public discourse, then you need not aspire to, apply for or expect to hold on to a publicly visible secular job, such as CEO of a corporation.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#300

Post by muyuu » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:52 PM UTC

matthewmacleod wrote: post #243

Touche wrote: post #128

This really saddens me. It is a black-mark on the gay rights movement. Eich made a mistake when he supported prop 8. History will clearly show this, like history has shown those who opposed interracial marriage were wrong. Being on the right-side of history isn't about stomping out those who opposed you when you finally win. It's not about retribution for past slights. Did we learn nothing from Nelson Mandela?

Eich made a mistake when he supported prop 8. He actively avoided apologising for his support of prop 8 – a law which is directly opposed to the values of Mozilla as an organisation. Had he done so, I suspect there would have been much less backlash.

Why should he apologise if he believes he's in the right? That's just pushing hypocrisy.