Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO • Hacker News Board

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#101

Post by sanxiyn » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:23 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #60

phillmv wrote: post #14

From the recode recap - http://recode.net/2014/04/03/mozilla-co-founder-brendan-eich... >“It’s clear that Brendan cannot lead Mozilla in this setting,” said Baker, who added that she would not and could not speak for Eich. “The ability to lead — particularly for the CEO — is fundamental to the role and that is not possible here.” The most damning aspect of this was their a) inability to predict this would be an issue…

It speaks a lot to his integrity that he didn't. Would you rather have a CEO who says one thing in public and then goes and does another thing surreptitiously, or one who stands up for his beliefs even when they're unpopular?

I think this showed Eich is insufficiently dedicated to Mozilla's mission. If Eich believed he can help Mozilla's mission by being a CEO (otherwise, why bother?), is lying about an issue more important than how much you could help Mozilla's mission? Utilitarian 101.

On the other hand, Eich probably didn't make such utilitarian calculation, and followed "do not lie" deontology instead. Pity.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#102

Post by greatsuccess » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:23 PM UTC

While this was probably inevitable, has anyone noticed how Mozilla seems to refer to itself as some sort of holy entity thats completely entitled to its position in the universe?

Which is interesting for a company which is basically the equivalent of NPR, wholly supported and funded by Google.

Im a little sick of their schtick in general and while it would be better for them to have a CEO who is not a douche, I have to wonder why Mozilla thinks they are so important and worthy of industry subsidies.

What have you done for me lately, Mozilla?

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#103

Post by ucarion » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:23 PM UTC

Oculus wrote: post #6

I'm not sure how I feel about this one. On the one hand, Brendan Eich had some beliefs that were against Mozilla's core values, but on the other hand we just showed that when a mob on the Internet wants something - they get it. It's scary because this mob has global reach, unlimited power, but isn't always right.

There are beliefs in this world that you cannot publicly hold and still expect to be taken seriously. If Eich were arguing against interracial marriage there would be very little debate about this issue; believing that humans cannot marry between races is not a belief modern society continues to respect.

I think this controversy is an indication that -- to the tech community at least -- believing that discrimination based on sexual orientation is one of those illegitimate beliefs.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#104

Post by agapos » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:23 PM UTC

Oculus wrote: post #6

I'm not sure how I feel about this one. On the one hand, Brendan Eich had some beliefs that were against Mozilla's core values, but on the other hand we just showed that when a mob on the Internet wants something - they get it. It's scary because this mob has global reach, unlimited power, but isn't always right.

"On the one hand, Brendan Eich had some beliefs that were against Mozilla's core values."

Care to elaborate this? Last time I read, the Mozilla Manifeto[1] says nothing about marriage rights or anything marginally related.

[1] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#105

Post by scottmagdalein » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:23 PM UTC

sethbannon wrote: post #57

Comments here are pretty supportive of Brendan but I see this as nothing but a victory for Mozilla and a victory for consumer activism. It should be clear by now that you cannot run a large company in the public eye while you espouse vitriolic and discriminatory views that belong in the last century.

One thing has nothing to do with the other.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#106

Post by matthewmacleod » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:23 PM UTC

amaral-herberth wrote: post #27

Oculus wrote: post #6

I'm not sure how I feel about this one. On the one hand, Brendan Eich had some beliefs that were against Mozilla's core values, but on the other hand we just showed that when a mob on the Internet wants something - they get it. It's scary because this mob has global reach, unlimited power, but isn't always right.

They are not right on this one. Eich was clearly persecuted politically.

No. A bunch of people, many who were members of that community, felt that Eich's personal views were incompatible with a relatively important and visible community position. It's not persecution to object to the appointment on that basis.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#107

Post by Aloisius » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:24 PM UTC

Beliavsky wrote: post #15

From the article: "We have employees with a wide diversity of views. Our culture of openness extends to encouraging staff and community to share their beliefs and opinions in public." Clearly people with socially conservative views are not welcome at Mozilla.

You can have socially conservative views. You cross a line when you actively engage in oppressing other people because of your views.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#108

Post by mdisraeli » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:24 PM UTC

phillmv wrote: post #14

From the recode recap - http://recode.net/2014/04/03/mozilla-co-founder-brendan-eich... >“It’s clear that Brendan cannot lead Mozilla in this setting,” said Baker, who added that she would not and could not speak for Eich. “The ability to lead — particularly for the CEO — is fundamental to the role and that is not possible here.” The most damning aspect of this was their a) inability to predict this would be an issue…

I completely agree, and thank you actually for saying "All he had to do was lie". We may not like that said option exists, but lying was an option. As was simply saying "I'm not going to lie {comment about personal beliefs}" - which may wouldn't have helped him keep the job, but might have given me more respect for the guy[1]

[1] As an out and proud queer, I'd rather someone be honest than obviously skirt around issues without addressing them. At least then we know were we stand

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#109

Post by dopamean » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:24 PM UTC

chrismonsanto wrote: post #11

My #1 question -- is Eich returning to CTO, another position, or quitting altogether? All in all, I think this was a pragmatic move. I am not a fan of this "CEO = literally the company" logic, though. I saw no reason to believe that he would use Mozilla to further an anti-gay agenda.

> I saw no reason to believe that he would use Mozilla to further an anti-gay agenda.

I agree. However, it's a little weird if you say you are a company who values diversity and different lifestyles but you have a CEO who is openly against a particular group of people. That kind of contradiction at the very top makes things weird.

Re: Brendan Eich Steps Down as Mozilla CEO

#110

Post by Borogove » Thu, Apr 03, 2014, 7:24 PM UTC

mathattack wrote: post #23

zobzu wrote: post #4

"Congrats" - All that makes me feel personally is that the people who pushed for this are extremists as well. I don't know if that's a good move by Mozilla as well, although my guess is that it's a personal move from Eich who couldn't handle the pressure and the death threats (which, to be honest, I understand - even if some will say a CEO is supposed to be stronger than that).

A leader stepping down due to death threats is a terrible thing for an organization.

Were there actually threats? I just googled "Brendan Eich threat" and didn't see anything relevant.