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European Parliament passes net neutrality law

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Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#71

Post by ErikHuisman »

rvschuilenburg wrote: post #63
higherpurpose wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic ISPs could throttle or block torrenting or Bitcoin if they are "illegal" in some country.

That is correct. In The Netherlands we already have net neutrality, but this hasn't stopped the Pirate Bay from being blocked. However, try to prove to a judge the entire protocol is illegal and should be blocked.

Initially the court decided that blocking all subscribers went too far but BREIN wasn’t satisfied and took the case to a full trial, which they won. Both Ziggo and XS4ALL filed subsequent appeals, arguing that the blockade was ineffective and denied subscribers’ free access to information.

Today the Court of The Hague released its verdict which sides with the Internet providers.

In its ruling the Court states that the Pirate Bay blockade is disproportionate and ineffective, citing TNO research and the Baywatch report of the University of Amsterdam. As a result, the blockade was found to hinder the Internet providers’ entrepreneurial freedoms.

jan 2014

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#72

Post by sveme »

M2Ys4U wrote: post #47
sveme wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possible, but I would say it will rather create a much fiercer competition: Differences between domestic rates and non-domestic rates are what kept the European Telecoms market from becoming truly European. As a German, the only viable option if I am spending most my time within Germany was to go with a German carrier. Now with the removal of roaming charges, the EU becomes the domestic market and in principle I coul…

I'm pretty sure that higher prices for international calls have not been abolished, though, which puts a dent in the idea of shopping around for the best deal. Though, I suppose you could buy multiple SIMs and switch them around as needed now.

To my understanding calls from your own country to another EU country are also covered by this: http://ec.europa.eu/news/science/130916_en.htm

The quote: >International call charges would be capped at the price of a long-distance domestic call and intra-EU mobile calls at €0.19 per minute (plus VAT).

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#73

Post by Svip »

Systemic33 wrote: post #17
bayesianhorse wrote: post #9

I think the EU is getting an amazing amount of work done, if you consider that it consists of 28 nation states which went to war with each other regularly for centuries up to a couple of decades ago...

And some of them are still culturally at war ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark%E2%80%93Sweden_relation...

Fun fact: People usually think that Britain and France has been most at war with one another, but Denmark and Sweden has actually been more at war (at least in terms of unique wars)[0].

Here is a non-exhaustive list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dano-Swedish_war

[0] The Hundred Years' War sort of ruins the statistics in terms of years at war.

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#74

Post by Svip »

mercurial wrote: post #30
Systemic33 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And some of them are still culturally at war ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark%E2%80%93Sweden_relation...

I don't know. Danish news always go "X is bad in Denmark. Meanwhile, X is really good in Sweden."

There used to be two ways to argue for a law proposal in Folketinget (Danish parliament):

"According to science, ..." and "in Sweden, they have..."

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#75

Post by Xylakant »

mattmanser wrote: post #21
bayesianhorse wrote: post #9

I think the EU is getting an amazing amount of work done, if you consider that it consists of 28 nation states which went to war with each other regularly for centuries up to a couple of decades ago...

You're thinking of the Cold War, the end of Colonialism and Nuclear Bombs and confusing it with something the EU did.

I was born and grew up close to the french border, in a region that was contested between France and Germany and often changed hands. I was lucky to be born after the french-german friendship started to take roots, but I'm well aware that my country and France used to be arch enemies and fought three devastating wars between 1870 and 1970, not to count the petty little border conflicts. I still remember the day that you could just cross the border without a passport check and I'm still amazed every time I cross that border, that the border post, the guards, everything, just disappeared and that the border is now essentially a sign just like I'd enter a city saying "Welcome to France". People that were born elsewhere or later than me don't even recognize the spot any more where the border was.

To the contrast, my partner was born and raised close to the Belarussian border and that's still like I remember borders: Armed guards, passport check, fences, need a visa to cross. 20km of queue, 36hours of wait for trucks trying to pass the border.

_This_ is what the European Union achieved. It's still messy and there's a lot of things that go wrong and possibly that will never really change, because a union of such diverse people with such diverse and distinct history will never be able to figure out how to cater to all needs in a fair way, but the achievement of having no separating border between so many countries with different rules and regulations, it's just amazing and I cherish it every day and I'm deeply saddened every time I meet people that can't see it.

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#76

Post by tomp »

vixen99 wrote: post #35

Roaming charges: I predict the telecomms will be increasing their general charges to make good losses on roaming. "Infrastructure and spectrum are expensive, and these costs need to be recouped somehow. Right now, the mobile operators are a bit stuck into low domestic data prices. So the money has to be clawed back from roaming customers instead". The reversal of this policy will mean that the non-traveling public wi…

> The reversal of this policy will mean that the non-traveling public will subsidize travelers. Great for those voting and attending the EU Parliament among others. Not so hot for the rest.

Am... not really. It just means that the travelling public won't subsidize the locals, i.e. that everybody will pay as much as they use.

Also, I don't believe that infrastructure is expensive (once it is set up), and in any case, if either the infrastructure or the spectrum become too expensive, the governments can nationalize the infrastructure and offer it for rent to multiple carriers (so that competing carriers don't need to build their own infrastructure - some countries already do that), and/or reduce the spectrum prices.

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#78

Post by [deleted] »

Svip wrote: post #73
Systemic33 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And some of them are still culturally at war ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark%E2%80%93Sweden_relation...

Fun fact: People usually think that Britain and France has been most at war with one another, but Denmark and Sweden has actually been more at war (at least in terms of unique wars)[0]. Here is a non-exhaustive list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dano-Swedish_war [0] The Hundred Years' War sort of ruins the statistics in terms of years at war.

[deleted]

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#79

Post by voicereasonish »

bayesianhorse wrote: post #9

I think the EU is getting an amazing amount of work done, if you consider that it consists of 28 nation states which went to war with each other regularly for centuries up to a couple of decades ago...

The EU has only existed for a couple of decades. To suggest that the EU is a reason we haven't had any wars recently is ridiculous, yet it gets trotted out time and time again by pro europeans. It's as scientific as saying vaccinations probably cause autism.

Also, the EU is not getting much useful done considering the millions that pour into it daily. The level of waste and bureaucracy is staggering. Moving the entire parliament between locations, the amount of money wasted in translating every document into every language, and so on.

The EU is obsessed with micromanaging every little detail of our lives. From regulations on fruit to banning things like light bulbs and vacuum cleaners. And the less said about the absolutely ridiculous nightmare that is "cookie law" the better. No one should be creating laws on what websites are allowed to do with cookies.

Thankfully the UK will not be part of the EU for too much longer. I give it 5 years at the most. (See the landslide win by UKIP in the debates this week).

If that doesn't happen, you can be pretty sure there will be wars in europe. Unchecked mass immigration tends to end up badly.

Re: European Parliament passes net neutrality law

#80

Post by shdon »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #24
NicoJuicy wrote: post #15

It was a close call... Neelie Kroes didn't want this. But against expectations, democracy won.. That doesn't happen much in the world (Eg. What Karel De Gucht tried / did ). All with all, i'm very glad this happened! It gave me some faith again in Europe as a regulator (i'm from Belgium ). (still dissappointed in Neelie Kroes though, she has some very good ideas... Opposing net neutrality was definetly a bad idea)

PS. Some examples of good ideas: - Transforming libraries in hackerspaces (this is one of the best ideas i ever came accross) - Removing roaming (expensive cell phone calls in foreign countries, but in Europe, we are all different countries. 9000 € for checking your mail and etc... was not an exception). Some people who regulary stay in foreign countries (work, business, long vacation, .. get a mobile subscription in…

On the whole, I think she does good work. I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt that she genuinely thought the text as proposed would sufficiently protect net neutrality or at least underestimated the holes it left. But even if she didn't, it is good to see that parliament did its job and corrected the mistakes made by the legislators.
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