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OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

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Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#271

Post by intslack »

zorpner wrote: post #248
intslack wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it valid? Have you talked to him personally about his beliefs? He's offered to share them with anyone he meets in person.

Fortunately for us, we have the opportunity to form our opinion of him by the actions he takes rather than the words he uses.

Again: Believing that marriage can only be between a man and a woman, because marriage has a religious connotation to them, is not bigotry.

It's a stupid fucking belief, and it leads to seperate but equal bullshit, but it's not homophobic on its own.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#272

Post by vise890 »

Am I the only one here who thinks that maybe a petition asking Mozilla to pressure Eich to step down may be a better solution to this?

I seems that all the years of contributions and sacrifices by the community to build a great product, fight for a better internet and all that mozilla has stood for could be very rapidly undone if we continue portraying it as a homophobic institution. All of this good, from so many people, undone for the views of one man.

Say we are successful with this, Firefox goes out of the picture. Mozilla is dead. Would that be something to aspire for? I'm creeped out by the state of the internet as it is already, mozilla seems like the last company that truly cares. Who would fight for keeping the internet open then? Google?

Let's direct the criticism to the man for his beliefs, lets let know mozilla that their choice is not cool and we won't accept it. Let's not bring the whole thing down with it please.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#273

Post by macspoofing »

spicyj wrote: post #31

Mozilla released a blog post on Saturday clearly stating: > Mozilla supports equality for all, including marriage equality for LGBT couples. https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/03/29/mozilla-supports-lg... There's no evidence that Brendan Eich will bring any of his political views to the workplace; this continued backlash feels unwarranted.

I don't think it was ever really about that. Mozilla is a great organization, partly because of Brendan's involvement over the years. Still it's perplexing that he feels so strongly about this. He's being criticized from every corner and bringing lots of negative attention to Mozilla and yet and he's sticking to his guns.

This isn't going to go away. At best he's going to be seen as the guy who doesn't support gay marriage in a world where this sort of view is becoming more and more untenable.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#274

Post by fleitz »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #220
hkphooey wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well said. This is mostly faux outrage. Brendan is one man, an easy target to scream and shout at. Notice how nobody is protesting outside mosques and embassies where under Islam, the penalty for simply being gay, let alone getting married, is DEATH.

That's a ridiculous generalisation; the status of homosexuality and Islamic law is far more nuanced than that. Not only is there not a single death penalty for being gay across the entire Muslim world, the legal status of homosexuality differs greatly. Of course, that is not to say that many of those countries don't exhibit abhorrent views, but the same goes for many Christian communities too. I would warrant that a…

The Qur'an is pretty clear about what the punishment for being an atheist or homosexual is.

I'm not saying that Jewish and Christian religious texts don't also contain similar punishments, however, it's quite clear that anyone who believes in all the things the Qur'an says would have to believe that it's acceptable to put atheists and homosexuals to death for no other reason.

Similarly in most judeo-christian religions you see similar opposition to homosexuality being treated on an equal footing to heterosexuality, not to mention the rest of the sexual repression commonly found in those religions.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#275

Post by pbhjpbhj »

dotBen wrote: post #191
lingben wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can argue the exact same thing for mozilla and firefox: Brendan did not create firefox/mozilla, he's one of thousands who contributed. People can have their own personal beliefs and as long as that doesn't effect the organization's open and inclusive policies.

I obviously wasn't clear enough - it's not about the contribution it's about leadership. Brendan was an employee of Mozilla when he made his Prop 8 contribution - that's fine, that's his right and as you point out people are entitled to their own personal beliefs. The issue is who a company/foundation/organization decides to be it's leader and the values that leader will exert upon the company/foundation/organization…

>people are entitled to their own personal beliefs //

You say that but the rest of the post makes it clear you don't believe that Mr Eich is entitled to his beliefs and that he shouldn't be employed [in this role] only because of those beliefs.

If he's entitled to hold those beliefs then he's entitle to be treated without prejudice for them, otherwise what do you mean by "entitled to"?

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#277

Post by pbhjpbhj »

ignostic wrote: post #212
adamors wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's not possible. Every company is lead by scumbags, your only choice is which scumbag's product you buy. This entire situation reminds me of this scene from 30 Rock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm3TepXcD8A

> "Every company is lead by scumbags, your only choice is which scumbag's product you buy." Again, that's a really big claim that you can't possibly back up. I don't subscribe to the cynical and defeatist attitude either. I'll do the best I can to make the world a better and more fair place.

What companies are you currently boycotting?

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#278

Post by Zikes »

whyenot wrote: post #77
Zikes wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's good to know we can set aside our moral values when convenience is at stake.

The point is to make a statement and educate users. Not cut off your nose to spite your face.

Yes! Let's destroy a man in the name of equality and social justice! Let's educate everyone about our high and mighty (selectively applied) morals at any cost!

It'll be totally worth it for that sweet, sweet sense of smugness we'll feel when we look in the mirror.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#279

Post by zorpner »

intslack wrote: post #251
scarmig wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When he donated money to remove a law in order to deny gay people their human rights. You can't just slap "but it's my religionnnnn" on something and call it a day. It's like you haven't bothered to read the rhetoric that right-wing politicians used in the segregated South or apartheid-era South Africa.

I'm not saying you should respect his beliefs. I'm saying you should stop calling him a bigot because you don't know what he actually believes, and don't have any evidence that he's homophobic. All we know is that he donated $1000 to reaffirm, in law, that marriage can only be between a man and a woman. Perhaps he believes that the state should remove all recognition of marriage and just recognize civil unions going…

> Perhaps he believes that the state should remove all recognition of marriage...

Just a heads-up, this is a strawman developed by anti-same-sex-marriage proponents to provide a possible (though not plausible) reason other than denying people their rights why someone might oppose same-sex marriage (and you also have to buy that someone who wanted to grant same-sex couples those legal right would vote/donate/campaign/etc to deny them).

If you're going to assert it, you need to have specific evidence that the individual in question actually believes that.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#280

Post by adwf »

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #153
webwright wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today, it's being anti-gay-rights is acceptable to lots of people. 50 years ago, being a racist was acceptable to lots of people. Would you work for or buy products from a CEO who was an unapologetic racist just because his beliefs were a product of his family/community? A good question to ask: If you think we will evolve to the point where gay rights are a given, what should we do right now ? Should we be respectful…

This is not about gay rights. This is about the married couple privileges being extended to gay couples. Comparing this to the right of all humans to be treated like humans regardless of their skin color is downright outrageous. Before you accuse me of something, I'm against any interference in the institution of marriage by states or churches. I'm also against tax/property/inheritance/pension/insurance privileges fo…

It is about gay rights. It's about human rights in general.

By giving some people less rights because of their skin color, you are treating them as sub-human. Somehow not deserving of the same human rights us Straight/White/Males are entitled to.

By giving some people less rights because of their gender, you are treating them as sub-human. Somehow not deserving of the same human rights us Straight/White/Males are entitled to.

By giving some people less rights because of their sexuality, you are treating them as sub-human. Somehow not deserving of the same human rights us Straight/White/Males are entitled to.

It's really all the same very basic case of denying some people the rights and freedoms that the majority of us take for granted.

There is no such thing as Straight/White/Male privilege. There is just Gay/Black/Female disadvantage. The rights I have, I take for granted - They are the norm. When certain segments of society are denied the exact same rights as I have, they are disadvantaged.

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