OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox • Hacker News Board

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#111

Post by qdpb » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 10:56 PM UTC

Todd wrote: post #26

Why doesn't OkCupid take a bolder stance and remove all JavaScript from their site? Brendan invented it. I guess that wouldn't be convenient. Better to ask users to inconvenience themselves. This really isn't fair to all of the people who have worked so hard to make Firefox what it is today.

Does he have any control over future development of javascript and how this future development will affect a wider community? I don't think he does.

But he is the CEO of the company, and what the company does going forward does depend on him a lot.

I think this is the key difference between boycotting the browser and boycotting the language.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#112

Post by MatthiasP » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 10:56 PM UTC

spicyj wrote: post #31

Mozilla released a blog post on Saturday clearly stating: > Mozilla supports equality for all, including marriage equality for LGBT couples. https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/03/29/mozilla-supports-lg... There's no evidence that Brendan Eich will bring any of his political views to the workplace; this continued backlash feels unwarranted.

This political-correctness frenzy is beyond ridiculous. A browser company should not have to give statements about political issues that have absolutely nothing to do with their business. What's next, regular declerations concerning basic income, marijuana legalization and the Crimea?

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#113

Post by webwright » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 10:57 PM UTC

gojomo wrote: post #78

And if this doesn't work, eventually when you try to message a Catholic, Mormon, Muslim, or other religiously-observant person from a denomination whose leaders publicly disapprove of homosexuality, you'll see a message from OKCupid like: Religion isn't normally the business of a website. But you've expressed an interest in dating someone whose religion denies equal rights to gay people. Sure, this person may seem OK…

Today, it's being anti-gay-rights is acceptable to lots of people. 50 years ago, being a racist was acceptable to lots of people. Would you work for or buy products from a CEO who was an unapologetic racist just because his beliefs were a product of his family/community?

A good question to ask: If you think we will evolve to the point where gay rights are a given, what should we do right now? Should we be respectful for these often-arbitrary beliefs or should we try to make people/companies with these beliefs uncomfortable (but in kind/respectful way)? Honest question.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#114

Post by davidgerard » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 10:57 PM UTC

Jare wrote: post #99

davidgerard wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They released it too late. If they had ANY clue, they'd have thought of this ahead of time. e.g. Brendan donates $2k or $5k to a gay charity requiring a public record (as the Prop 8 donation did) three months ago, someone notices two months ago, he can then stay as gnomic as he likes. Something like that. But, y’know, literally nobody in the upper echelons of Mozilla thought of this. That neither Eich or the board th…

> They released it too late. Calls for boycott are happening AFTER it was released. I think it's the content (or lack thereof) of that letter that makes it ineffective. > If they had ANY clue, they'd have thought of this ahead of time. e.g. Brendan donates $2k or $5k to a gay charity requiring a public record So now we prefer lying bigots to honest bigots? That reeks so much of hypocrisy, it is disgusting.

I know. But, y'know, "I've tried to take away your rights and I refuse to talk about it, but hey! I promise I won't do it again, baby!" isn't playing out too well in practice.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#115

Post by Diamons » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 10:57 PM UTC

dmazin wrote: post #103

gojomo wrote: post #78

And if this doesn't work, eventually when you try to message a Catholic, Mormon, Muslim, or other religiously-observant person from a denomination whose leaders publicly disapprove of homosexuality, you'll see a message from OKCupid like: Religion isn't normally the business of a website. But you've expressed an interest in dating someone whose religion denies equal rights to gay people. Sure, this person may seem OK…

The problem is not that Eich's beliefs are a deviation from a norm (whether they are or not is irrelevant). His beliefs are hateful. The reason for this particular message is because it is part of a greater campaign to show Mozilla that users and producers on the internet are not in support of Eich's appointment.

America - everyone can have their own opinion unless it disagrees with the majority.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#116

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 10:57 PM UTC

fennecfoxen wrote: post #70

Todd wrote: post #26

Why doesn't OkCupid take a bolder stance and remove all JavaScript from their site? Brendan invented it. I guess that wouldn't be convenient. Better to ask users to inconvenience themselves. This really isn't fair to all of the people who have worked so hard to make Firefox what it is today.

Why doesn't OKCupid take a bolder stance and give a button to all their users when they sign in, asking, "Do you support marriage equality?" If they click "no", it deletes your account. I mean, as long as you've decided this is the sort of thing your business ought to be concerning itself with...

[deleted]

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#117

Post by davidgerard » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 10:57 PM UTC

jrs99 wrote: post #89

davidgerard wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They released it too late. If they had ANY clue, they'd have thought of this ahead of time. e.g. Brendan donates $2k or $5k to a gay charity requiring a public record (as the Prop 8 donation did) three months ago, someone notices two months ago, he can then stay as gnomic as he likes. Something like that. But, y’know, literally nobody in the upper echelons of Mozilla thought of this. That neither Eich or the board th…

it's EXTREMELY bizarre that they would not have seriously thought of it. Unless they all share the same opinions as Eich and they feel that being against gay marriage is like being against anchovies on your pizza. Then it would never have hit them that this was a serious problem.

I think stupidity is a sufficient explanation.

"I'm envisioning the board standing around with glassy stares, 'I have no idea how this could have happened. We totally vetted his geek cred.'" - rone

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#118

Post by vacri » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 10:57 PM UTC

dmazin wrote: post #103

gojomo wrote: post #78

And if this doesn't work, eventually when you try to message a Catholic, Mormon, Muslim, or other religiously-observant person from a denomination whose leaders publicly disapprove of homosexuality, you'll see a message from OKCupid like: Religion isn't normally the business of a website. But you've expressed an interest in dating someone whose religion denies equal rights to gay people. Sure, this person may seem OK…

The problem is not that Eich's beliefs are a deviation from a norm (whether they are or not is irrelevant). His beliefs are hateful. The reason for this particular message is because it is part of a greater campaign to show Mozilla that users and producers on the internet are not in support of Eich's appointment.

Given that his beliefs in 2008 were echoed by a majority of Californian voters, it's hard to argue that they're a deviation from the norm.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#119

Post by mbrubeck » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 10:58 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #60

We don't need more than one story about this on the front page, so I'm killing the others. Commenters: To state the obvious, this is an inflammatory topic. If you post a comment, make sure that it is a thoughtful one. Readers: If you see a comment that is not thoughtful, please downvote it. Most comments in this thread so far have not been, so you have your work cut out for you. In extreme cases, flag the comment. To…

Thanks, dang. I'm glad to see HN staff engaging directly with users.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#120

Post by steve-howard » Mon, Mar 31, 2014, 10:58 PM UTC

cgrubb wrote: post #62

davidgerard wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_as_bad_as "The "not as bad as" argument, or the fallacy of relative privation, is a form of the moral equivalence fallacy that takes note of the existence of things that are worse than what is actually under discussion - for different purposes, as outlined below. It's popular with people who know perfectly well they're doing something wrong; being fully aware that they're doing someth…

Isn't there a false dilemma fallacy? Who invented all these fallacies? They seem to be unavoidable.

There's the fallacy fallacy, which says "just because you can match an argument to a fallacy doesn't mean you've proven anything":

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fallacy_fallacy