Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Surprisingly Large Cost of Telling Small Lies

boss.blogs.nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 89 posts

Re: The Surprisingly Large Cost of Telling Small Lies

#71

Post by skizm »

srs3 wrote: post #56
skizm wrote: post #55

One of my favorite quotes goes like this: Lies propagate, that's what I'm saying. You've got to tell more lies to cover them up, lie about every fact that's connected to the first lie. And if you kept on lying, and you kept on trying to cover it up, sooner or later you'd even have to start lying about the general laws of thought. Like, someone is selling you some kind of alternative medicine that doesn't work, and an…

Somewhat ironic given how the main character is found consistently lying through his teeth.

Harry? He might selectively tell the truth but pretty much always refuses an outright lie. With the exception of a few times after the azkaban sequence.

Re: The Surprisingly Large Cost of Telling Small Lies

#72

Post by forgottenpass »

efsavage wrote: post #70
forgottenpass wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I struggle with finding that delicate balance between the truth ... Oh, so you lie, but lie by omission? Or one of the other forms of lying we tend to morally wallpaper over? I don't see how else to read that because you said your goal was to avoid making false promises, not to avoid "bending" the truth.

If a 5 year old child asks you if he will be killed by pirates (yes this has really happened to me), would you say no? If so, you're lying, but I don't think there is any "moral wallpaper" here, it's simply letting a kid sleep at night. Not to say there aren't many dishonest people out there, but the parallels between sales (especially software) and this story are all too common.

If so, you're lying, but I don't think there is any "moral wallpaper" here, it's simply letting a kid sleep at night.

If the reasoning starts with "This lie is OK because..." you're using the fact it's easy to argue that the lie was moral to extinguish the weight typically associated with lying.

The reasoning here is based on the idea the child is really asking is if there are monsters under the bed/in the closet/down the street. You lie because the truth wouldn't be reassuring, because they can't handle the complexities of the answer "Anything can happen, but the chances are infinitesimally small if you stay out if international waters."

So, are you making bad analogies or do you consider your clients children that couldn't handle the idea you're selling a complex product? It's fine if you do, people can be real dumb sometimes, I won't mind.

It just seems like you're trying to build yourself a cozy little nest between the "truth" and "lying" that extends beyond genuine misunderstandings. The weight of a lie exists on a scale. I do lie to children, but don't consider it not lying, I just don't worry about it too much. I do tend to believe in telling less "white lies" to children than is typical but that's a tangent.

Re: The Surprisingly Large Cost of Telling Small Lies

#73

Post by callen6 »

Does anyone know who "Peter" is? I liked his advice and was really interested to see what else he's invested in, so I looked on CrunchBase, AngelList, Posse's website, etc. but I can't track down a Posse angel investor named Peter. I kind of hope this article about telling the whole truth even if it makes you vulnerable isn't using a pseudonym for the investor.

Re: The Surprisingly Large Cost of Telling Small Lies

#74

Post by 3minus1 »

Perceval wrote: post #67
3minus1 wrote: post #53

I often feel like always telling the truth is the result of privilege. And that people who are more insecure for whatever reasons have much more cause to lie. That being said, I have very little patience for colleagues who lie about work-related knowledge. It's a huge waste of time.

> I often feel like always telling the truth is the result of privilege. Maybe, but the converse seems to also be supported: that ease in lying is the result of privilege: http://mors.haas.berkeley.edu/papers/Carney.HowPowerCorrupts... If both the ability to lie frequently and/or tell the truth as a rule are the result of privilege, what explanatory effect does privilege have?

Yeah, maybe "result" is wrong. It's not a cause and effect. I probably should have said that having social and economic resources makes it easier to tell the truth, specifically in instances where the person knows they can easily withstand any negative consequences.

As an example: leaving a note when you accidentally damage another person's car.

Re: The Surprisingly Large Cost of Telling Small Lies

#75

Post by rsanek »

I have to say, I lost a bit of respect for the author when he says

>"polygraph tests measuring blood pressure, perspiration, pulse and skin conductivity can pinpoint a lie with tremendous accuracy."

I'm sure polygraphs aren't useless, but to say that they have "tremendous accuracy" seems exaggerated.

see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygraph#Validity

Re: The Surprisingly Large Cost of Telling Small Lies

#76

Post by T-hawk »

danieltillett wrote: post #12

The real problem with lying (apart from the obvious moral one) is the risk you might start to actually believe your own lies. Once you can't tell what is true and what is not then you are on track to mess-up big time. All the times I have been really side-swiped by someone it is when they have told themselves so many lies that they can no longer act in their own best interest.

That's pretty much what the article said. When an entrepreneur fudges facts about cash flow or profitability, they tend to start believing that fudged reality and thus start reacting incorrectly to the real one.

Re: The Surprisingly Large Cost of Telling Small Lies

#77

Post by deltaqueue »

forgottenpass wrote: post #68
deltaqueue wrote: post #66

I deal with this everyday selling software, and it's much more complex than being truthful and lying. My job as a technical consultant to our sales staff is to bridge the gap between needs assessment and salesmanship. I have a 0 tolerance policy about lying during sales (I have to be to keep our sales guys from making false promises), but I struggle with finding that delicate balance between the truth, focusing on wh…

I struggle with finding that delicate balance between the truth ... Oh, so you lie, but lie by omission? Or one of the other forms of lying we tend to morally wallpaper over? I don't see how else to read that because you said your goal was to avoid making false promises, not to avoid "bending" the truth.

Your inference was incorrect. I said my job was to keep our sales reps from making false promises, which includes (but is not limited to) bending the truth, lying by omission, making incorrect assertions, etc.

My industry is highly mobile and quite competitive so we don't gain anything by stretching truths. Customers can leave as quickly as they come, and since we're a small shop we use a consultative sales approach to ensure customers will be happy long-term.

Again, the solution is more complex than "just tell the truth." Tell the truth in a positive way, offer viable alternatives, and re-emphasize what matters. We're selling to humans, not Vulcans.

Re: The Surprisingly Large Cost of Telling Small Lies

#78

Post by sin7 »

crusso wrote: post #62
furyg3 wrote: post #22

During my studies (conflict resolution), I had the opportunity to ask several mediators and negotiators who had worked on high-profile political cases about lying. It occurred often, but was by far the least favorite item in the toolbox of a negotiator. Many would rather make emotional / moral appeals to the opposing side than lie. Not because it wasn't effective (in some cases it could be quite effective), but becau…

Then again, in Poker, honesty is not really a winning strategy.

Then again, Poker is a zero-sum game. Life isn't.

Re: The Surprisingly Large Cost of Telling Small Lies

#79

Post by crusso »

sin7 wrote: post #78
crusso wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then again, in Poker, honesty is not really a winning strategy.

Then again, Poker is a zero-sum game. Life isn't.

My point is that Poker and other zero-sum-games are within the set of "stuff in life". Life is not simply composed of "conflict resolution".

Re: The Surprisingly Large Cost of Telling Small Lies

#80

Post by loceng »

aaronem wrote: post #38
loceng wrote: post #34

"The webs we weave when we learn to deceive"

I've heard a few versions of that chestnut, but the only one which both rhymes and scans is this: 'Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.'

The important followup behaviour to this is whether people continue to deceive.
Post reply on HN