The fact that they can come out and say this demonstrates that these employees, the people best able to assess this, don't believe that Eich will retaliate. That Mozilla is and remains a place where any employee can express their views on political issues, even if they know they're contrary to the CEO's. And that destroys any argument for Eich's role as CEO creating a conflict with Mozilla's ability to welcome LGBTQ…
>when there is no documented instance of him ever disparaging or otherwise harming LGBTQ employees or community members. Except the bit where he contributed $1000 to a campaign to vilify them and take away their rights.
Mozilla employees tell Brendan Eich he needs to “step down”
191–200 of 230 posts
Re: Mozilla employees tell Brendan Eich he needs to “step down”
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
If my boss paid money to a political cause against mix-marriages, but inside of work took no action to discriminate against people who were in mixed marriages, I'd think he was an asshat, and express such opinion, but not tie it to work any more than he was. Of course, I don't need to feel threatened by people disagreeing with life choices I've made just because they don't like them, nor do I need to retaliate agains…
Do you often tell your boss he's an asshat? If so, you should read the people commenting here that the Mozilla employees speaking out may be making career-limiting moves. Regardless, it sounds like you haven't experienced significant workplace discrimination. Some people are prone to see discriminatory behavior as threatening because they have been threatened or harmed.
No one, as far as I'm aware, has pointed out examples of him behaving in a discriminatory manner - just that he holds a different view than them and engages in the political process.
I certainly agree that workplace discrimination is a problem, I just don't think that one necessitates the other, as people are claiming here.
> Do you often tell your boss he's an asshat? If so, you should read the people commenting here that the Mozilla employees speaking out may be making career-limiting moves.
I'd expect that the career limiting move is largely that they're linking their speaking out to how things should be at Mozilla, rather than distancing their speaking out from workplace politics.
But for the record, yes, I've told superiors, up to the CTO (while I was working in IT) that they're wrong on a number of social issues. I've also literally used the word "asshat" to describe people who hold opinions contrary to mine on those same issues on social media.
I just don't go out of my way to link it in to workplace politics, and haven't worked for people petty enough to punish their subordinates for having differing opinions.
If the Mozilla CEO is doing that, I'd be happy to see evidence of it. If the Mozilla CEO is discriminating at work because people are gay or support gay marriage, I'd like to see evidence of that. So far, all I see is people intentionally linking their dissent to workplace politics and people trying to punish him for having a view they don't like.
Feel free to cite evidence to prove me wrong.
Re: Mozilla employees tell Brendan Eich he needs to “step down”
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
He expressed his views publicly. They are subject to public criticism. It's absurd to characterize any form of criticism, especially something relatively mild as this, as a witch-hunt. Anti-gay bigotry is socially unacceptable. Honestly anyone who thought about it at length ought to have realized we were heading in this direction. And the bar for denying an entire category of people's rights out to be relatively high…
Try to see this from another angle. It's 1970 and you've donated to an organization that advocates equal rights to blacks. As a consequence, when you rise through the ranks at your company and have the opportunity to be considered for CEO, your board of directors rejects you on the basis of that contribution. What you're saying is it's ok to deprive a man of his livelihood based on the current state of public opinion…
> I think you're presupposing that principles are interchangeable and I don't accept that.
This is essentially saying "my (current) religion is the only true one". Look at history. Principles are interchangeable, there's no reasonable way to deny that.
> I believe in some inherent human rights, and the merits of this particular issue are incredibly relevant. The gentleman in question made a substantial monetary contribution aimed at denying a collection of people a set of privileges.
So you don't believe in religious freedom then ? Or rather, if you are offended by this, just how offended are you by, say islam, which openly advocates beheading homosexuals inside America, and practices it in parts of the world. It even advocates beheading victims of homosexual rape (yes, really, they actually mention that).
The majority of humans currently alive are in favor of killing all homosexuals (not just muslims). Do you believe in democracy ?
All these things are in conflict, making reality way more complex than you suppose here.
Or are you merely having this opinion because you have a good chance of imposing it on this particular "witch" ?
Re: Mozilla employees tell Brendan Eich he needs to “step down”
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thank you for posting this. It's insane that there's this witch-hunt over someone's personal views, and the fact that this outlandish behaviour is actually supported and applauded by people. If anything this just gives more credence to the 'gay agenda' conspiracies that up until fairly recently no one took seriously...
No, it really doesn't. There are sensible people on this thread trying to argue that Brendan Eich shouldn't be forced to resign because of his private political views, and there are idiots like you using words like 'witch-hunt' and talking about the 'gay agenda' (what, you think they have a committee somewhere drawing up a hit-list?). I sincerely doubt that you are trying constructively to help here.
Re: Mozilla employees tell Brendan Eich he needs to “step down”
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequence. He is free to express his opinions of gay people. They are free to express their opinions of him. See how that works? Everybody's free to say their piece. Of course, the problem here isn't his view , which nobody actually knows. It's that he helped strip a civil right from a bunch of people, including some of those he will now be in charge of.
>> He is free to express his opinions of gay people. Context matters though. If you make these opinions at the workplace and someone feels threatened, discriminated against or harassed, there are legal repercussions. And I assume this goes both ways. If you have an unpopular view that is expressed outside the workplace but are harassed by your coworkers, there is a risk of legal repercussions on those coworkers too.
Context matters some. But it's not like people's opinions reverse when they walk into the office.
If he is biased against gays, a concern raised by helping fund the removal of one of their civil rights, people can be reasonably afraid that this will eventually affect them in the workplace.
It need not be something obvious, either. Most decisions made by CEOs, especially decisions on who to reward and promote, are almost entirely judgment calls. Do you want to work for a guy who might not treat you fairly? "Yes" and "no" are both reasonable answers.
Re: Mozilla employees tell Brendan Eich he needs to “step down”
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you often tell your boss he's an asshat? If so, you should read the people commenting here that the Mozilla employees speaking out may be making career-limiting moves. Regardless, it sounds like you haven't experienced significant workplace discrimination. Some people are prone to see discriminatory behavior as threatening because they have been threatened or harmed.
No one, as far as I'm aware, has pointed out examples of him behaving in a discriminatory manner - just that he holds a different view than them and engages in the political process. I certainly agree that workplace discrimination is a problem, I just don't think that one necessitates the other, as people are claiming here. > Do you often tell your boss he's an asshat? If so, you should read the people commenting her…
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Re: Mozilla employees tell Brendan Eich he needs to “step down”
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you often tell your boss he's an asshat? If so, you should read the people commenting here that the Mozilla employees speaking out may be making career-limiting moves. Regardless, it sounds like you haven't experienced significant workplace discrimination. Some people are prone to see discriminatory behavior as threatening because they have been threatened or harmed.
No one, as far as I'm aware, has pointed out examples of him behaving in a discriminatory manner - just that he holds a different view than them and engages in the political process. I certainly agree that workplace discrimination is a problem, I just don't think that one necessitates the other, as people are claiming here. > Do you often tell your boss he's an asshat? If so, you should read the people commenting her…
I'm pretty sure that helping to remove a civil right from a group of people can be taken as discriminatory.
I agree that nobody has come forward with proof that he has done something wrong at Mozilla. Which is why he's still at Mozilla.
But I don't think "hasn't been caught being an egregious bigot at work" is the only bar a CEO of a major nonprofit needs to clear. And whether or not he stays on as CEO, I think it's entirely reasonable for some Mozilla employees to decide that they're better off elsewhere.
Re: Mozilla employees tell Brendan Eich he needs to “step down”
#198Just the CEO? Who else shall we burn at the stake? Mary, the office manager, goes to church every Sunday. How did she vote? John over in mobile dev is a devout Muslim, I'll bet he doesn't take kindly to such things as gay marriage. Time to start scanning through those campaign contribution records for Prop 8 and seeing if a JOIN on the employee database gives us any results. I've always held to the idea that my job i…
Thank you for posting this. It's insane that there's this witch-hunt over someone's personal views, and the fact that this outlandish behaviour is actually supported and applauded by people. If anything this just gives more credence to the 'gay agenda' conspiracies that up until fairly recently no one took seriously...
Silly you for thinking there was an agenda.
In the UK, the Labour (political party) Gay Rights Manifesto of 1985 said,
"A socialist society would supersede the family household... Gay people and children should have the right to live together... It follows from what we have already said that we favour the abolition of the age of consent."
Re: Mozilla employees tell Brendan Eich he needs to “step down”
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure it's possible , and of course legal. But it behooves your employers, employees and customers to remember that we live in a civil society, and banishing the heretics rather than gracefully tolerating and persuading them is poisonous for that society.
No one is being banished or burned at the stake. His suitability for a leadership position is openly questioned by employees in light of his publicly espoused views. Nothing more, nothing less.
> His suitability for a leadership position is openly questioned by employees in light of his publicly espoused views. Nothing more, nothing less.
No, it's more than that: people are actively calling him to step down.
Re: Mozilla employees tell Brendan Eich he needs to “step down”
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here's the proposition's full text: http://www.ag.ca.gov/cms_pdfs/initiatives/i737_07-0068_Initi... It hardly vilifies anyone--it's pretty stupidly worded as is ("marriage"? What is that? How does it compare with "civil union"?) Look, did you vote for Obama or Bush? Then you too have actively vilified people and acted to take away their rights. We can't punish people for participating in our form of government, even…
The difference between voting for Prop 8 and voting for Obama or Bush is that voting for a political candidate is a much more complicated affair. Obama and Bush have opinions about many issues, and it's impossible to find a political candidate that agrees with you on every issue. So you necessarily must make compromises. But Prop 8 is much more simple. Here is the full text: >SECTION I. Title >This measure shall be k…
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