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Turkish government takes down YouTube too

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Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#101
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right- the internet isn't magic. There is a natural law at play here, and you just mentioned it! Information does want to be free- its not just a slogan, its a universal law. There is no practical way for a corrupt government to constrain the flow of information in this day and age.

What about North Korea? I think that's still just a slogan.

North Korea never had Internet (as we know it) in the first place, so it does not apply.

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#102
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBH it's mostly about the fact that the "route around damage" really applies only to a very small stack. What does the browser do, to "route around damage"? What does a DNS client do? Very little, if anything. They were not built to "route around damage", they were built to do client/server.

"What does the browser do, to "route around damage"?" Browser doesn't - user does.

The user isn't part of the internet, unless it's someone with a cranial implant of some sort (surely coming soon...).

The phrase originally referred to protocols like TCP/IP and SMTP that used relays and packet forwarding to cope with the fact that any given set of servers might be disabled. In this respect Bittorrent is much closer to the original conception than HTTP.

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#103
I am a native Turkish speaker and I listened the recording. For one thing I did not hear anything you would not expect to hear from most of the statesman in the west in a similar situation.

Conversation is about the future stance of Turkey for the civil war in Syria and lack of enough resolve for the last 3 years to intervene properly, and that does not mean directly involving but not supplying ammo to rebel groups against Assad regime. They are complaining that the civil war took a turn toward total destabilization of the region, especially after Al-Qaeda linked group called ISIL[1] started taking over anti-Assad rebel groups. They fear that if ISIL becomes an armed power next to Turkey's border it will be a huge security concern. The head of intelligence agency says that if Turkey going to engage against them in the future it should be done so on their terms but not the other side's choosing. The mention of alleged provocation of the head of intelligence by his minions firing rockets from the Syrian side into Turkish side is correct. He says his men can do that. However he says that in the context they want to be the one starting the assault on ISIL, not the other way around. They argue that if they should wait for the ISIL to attack first. So again it is about engaging al-Qaeda linked group but not starting war with Syria. In this recording foreign minister mention that they want to avoid any conflict with Syria due to their capabilities. I do believe that any war with Syria destabilizes Turkey grossly and it is definitely something they would want to avoid and they did.

The al-Qaeda linked group (ISIL) invaded one the Syrian village about [4] 30-40km away from the Turkish border about a week ago. And like many Turkish I learned something new last week. In that village there's the tomb[2] of the grandfather of the founder of Ottoman Empire. Surrounding of that tomb which is a tiny tiny land in that village belongs to Turkish Republic. The monument is protected by Turkish soldiers who reside there permanently. After ISIL invaded the surrounding village they demanded [5] that Turkish soldiers leave the monument. However that land is part of Turkish sovereign land and Turkey reacted that she would intervene forcefully. Even we have been reading that couple of F-16 fighters are kept ready to take off on the tarmac and special ops can intervene in 90 seconds.

In the recording, foreign minister mentions the option of intervention to ISIL using the Tomb as an excuse, even if they do not attack monument and the soldiers. They mention that world would support such intervention since this is a al-Qaeda linked group. So they would like to attack ISIL fully in the whole region.

They are not warmongering against Syria, and they fear that ISIL's presence could become permanent and can become something of huge security concern for years to come.. In the recording, head of Turkish intelligence mention about lack of resolve of the government. He says if they did not intervene while thousands of people died, still attack on the Tomb of Suleyman Shah is a weaker argument to start an attack.

Probably we need to consider how US would react if an Al-Qaeda linked group starts taking over northern villages of Mexico while a civil war is going on in there.

However the main post is about YouTube ban due to this recording. I just wanted to give another perspective.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_L... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_of_Suleyman_Shah [3] https://plus.google.com/109044970213631232914/about?gl=us&hl... [4] https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tomb+of+Suleyman+Shah/@36.... [5] http://www.worldbulletin.net/turkey/132062/isil-deadline-for...

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#104
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll see. Turkey seems to be more stable. Do we have any reason to believe the Turkish government will certainly be overthrown, aside from the affront to our collective geek prides?

The Turkish military sees itself as the guardian of the Kemalist constitution and is unhappy with Erdogan. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Turkish_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat Rising conflicts between popular groups would, if they seriously undermined Erdogan's claim to be in command of the country, provide a pretext for a coup.

This understanding is outdated. AKP has gutted the old secular military establishment and instituted reforms that no longer make this a realistic scenario.

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about North Korea? I think that's still just a slogan.

North Korea never had Internet (as we know it) in the first place, so it does not apply.

"Information wants to be free" doesn't apply to North Korea because they never had access to the Internet as we know it? Information is only dependent on the Internet insofar as the Internet is a transmission medium. Other media exist even in NK- print, broadcast, word-of-mouth.

Information can be exchanged freely by whispering voices.

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#107

Blocking social media sites and expecting it to reduce tension is like turning off TV & radio broadcasting and expecting people to remain in their homes; it's a failure to understand modern systems of control. Orwell doesn't work at all. Huxley is your only hope Turkey :P

They aren't that naive -- it's one of very many systems to exert control over. Their issue is that Twitter doesn't bow to pressure in the same manner that CNN Turkey does.

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#108
post #3

After Twitter, this was expected. Just couple of hours ago, leaked audio recordings were uploaded to Youtube which show "Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu, National Intelligence Organization (MİT) Undersecretary Hakan Fidan, Foreign Ministry Undersecretary Feridun Sinirlioğlu and Deputy Chief of General Staff Gen. Yaşar Güler are heard discussing possible intervention into Syria and possible reactions from the world"…

No where in that recording mention about strengthening Erdogan's position before local elections. On the contrary they mention that Erdogan actually not acting on it all, one of the voice proposes that Head of Turkish Army and couple of other officials should get together while PM present and clarify on how to help rebel groups.

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#109
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Turkish military sees itself as the guardian of the Kemalist constitution and is unhappy with Erdogan. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Turkish_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat Rising conflicts between popular groups would, if they seriously undermined Erdogan's claim to be in command of the country, provide a pretext for a coup.

This understanding is outdated. AKP has gutted the old secular military establishment and instituted reforms that no longer make this a realistic scenario.

"Gutted" seems strong to me: the military has lost its influence over the judiciary, but they are a very strong, well-funded and influential arm of the state, and they seem to be gaining some measure of public respect that they lost. I could be wrong, but I think the ethos of being guardians of the constitution is still there. (And, for its own reasons, the AKP has been stressing the possibility of a coup as a reason for weakening the army).

How realistic a scenario a coup is depends on just how messy the months ahead get, I think.

Re: Turkish government takes down YouTube too

#110

At least we have a Redundant Array of Independent Social Networks to help us route around this intentional damage.

All we need now is a Border Rules Agnostic Network, and the RAISN BRAN will be part of this healthy information breakfast.

Dynamically Routed Independent Network Kludge

Yields Oppression Unwinding Reaction

Opposition Values Actions Leading Towards Individual and Nation Emancipation

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