This could be an interesting model to do out in the open. Rather than covertly mine cryptocurrency, say that the app is free if you contribute hashes to a pool, or you can buy the premium version that doesn't. Almost like the "slow" version vs the "fast" version of an app.
Didn't this idea start with SETI@home in the 90's ?
Apps with millions of Google Play downloads covertly mine cryptocurrency
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Re: Apps with millions of Google Play downloads covertly mine cryptocurrency
#82What is the hashrate on these? Could'nt imagine it being very high...
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[1]https://litecoin.info/Mining_hardware_comparison#Laptop_.2F_...
[2]http://www.reddit.com/r/dogecoin/comments/1ttxhi/digging_wit...
Re: Apps with millions of Google Play downloads covertly mine cryptocurrency
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree, its theft. If I borrow your bicycle all the time without you knowing it may be innocent enough, but it still causes wear and tear on the bicycle. I am thieving bicycle time from you that you paid for. If I had simply asked for it, you couldn't blame me, but alas I took it without your consent. [edit] Do either of these apps explicitly state that they will access/use device in this way?
No it's not theft, it's conversion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_(law)
Taking someone else's property can be both theft and conversion.
Conversion is a tort, a matter of a lawsuit between parties.
Theft is a crime, a matter between a citizen and the state.
Re: Apps with millions of Google Play downloads covertly mine cryptocurrency
#84I've been working on an idea similar to this for a few months. Instead of limiting this to crypto currency mining (a fair application, FWIW), why not approach this with the idea that people plugging in their phones every night could easily constitute the largest distributed supercomputer ever built? Everyone has the same nightly ritual: Wake up, use phone/tablet/device, plug in at night. Once it's plugged in, your ph…
Errr.... I know that phone chargers draw some power even when the phone isn't charging, but surely it's orders of magnitude less than what they draw when the attached device is running at full capacity. Not to mention how hot the damn things could get. So it's going to cost me electricity and probably shorten the life of my phone - why would I sign up?
The charging circuitry on some phones (not all) actually disengages the battery from the charging circuit path once 100% AC power is reached. In other words your phone's CPU runs off of AC power (and not via the battery) once 100% charge is reached.
Why you would sign up is where it gets interesting - the app works via a similar incentivization scheme as how bitcoin miners work - the more you run the app (mine) the likelier you stumble upon a valid proof of work, and you get rewarded by virtual currency.
Re: Apps with millions of Google Play downloads covertly mine cryptocurrency
#85I've been working on an idea similar to this for a few months. Instead of limiting this to crypto currency mining (a fair application, FWIW), why not approach this with the idea that people plugging in their phones every night could easily constitute the largest distributed supercomputer ever built? Everyone has the same nightly ritual: Wake up, use phone/tablet/device, plug in at night. Once it's plugged in, your ph…
I thought of this as well, but more along the lines of protein folding. I think finding a cure for one of those diseases would be more than enough for most people to justify the power consumption.
There's still an immense opportunity to tap unused cycles if you give people another reason to donate their device time. Unfortunately, altruistic purposes don't always appeal to the masses :-)
Re: Apps with millions of Google Play downloads covertly mine cryptocurrency
#86Careful.. The New Jersey DA is trying to go after an MIT student for simply exploring the freemium mining concept at a hackathon. He got MIT and the EFF to back him, but there are probably others looking to make an example out of someone. http://venturebeat.com/2014/02/12/new-jersey-slaps-mit-bitco...
Yep, at RPI we had a research project doing something a bit similar by tying bitcoin transactions to the HTTP protocol itself to enable on-the-fly payments with an alternative of on-the-fly mining. RPI lawyers told us to stop after we asked for counsel due to money transmitter laws. A few months later the MIT kid got hit with a subpoena. Bullet dodged for us but I really hope he pulls through with a win.
I expect more and more folks will start to "discover" the real legal implications of some of these types of applications. I'm sure we'll see some story or what have you, and we'll all cry foul, even though the laws have been in place for many years and we mostly (albeit somewhat unknowingly) abide by them.
I also expect that folks will "discover" why we have central banks for currencies, and why Alexander Hamilton was a Smart Guy.
While cryptocurrencies are new, the problems they'll face aren't--in fact, we've solved these problems mostly in developed countries. They still exist pretty readily in developing countries, though. What happens when we start selling securities based around cryptocurrencies, such as derivatives? If you think the SEC will allow Americans to buy, sell, and even discuss securities openly, you are out of your mind.
What about money laundering? When/if you ever work for a bank or an investment firm in the US, you'll take some training around money laundering (there are even tests at the end). The SEC (allegedly) holds these firms responsible for spotting, reporting, and stopping money laundering schemes. What happens when money laundering happens over an exchange? How will that be handled?
Sorry for the long-windedness...your anecdote just got me thinking.
Re: Apps with millions of Google Play downloads covertly mine cryptocurrency
#87I've been working on an idea similar to this for a few months. Instead of limiting this to crypto currency mining (a fair application, FWIW), why not approach this with the idea that people plugging in their phones every night could easily constitute the largest distributed supercomputer ever built? Everyone has the same nightly ritual: Wake up, use phone/tablet/device, plug in at night. Once it's plugged in, your ph…
I could see it being used for protein folding, but I don't think cryptocurrency mining is an application. By running your app, I'm consuming extra electricity for which I would have to pay. How would you compensate me for that?
Of course, the amount you get compensated should feel valuable and commensurate to the "effort" your device expended for this to be worthwhile. It largely boils down to user expectations, but given economics of scale, I'm confident that we can have more than a 1:1 ROI of effort to reward.
Re: Apps with millions of Google Play downloads covertly mine cryptocurrency
#88Re: Apps with millions of Google Play downloads covertly mine cryptocurrency
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
Doesn't the app have ads in addition to the mining aspect? As someone pointed out in a similar past thread, 1 coin for $0 of energy is still an infinite profit.
That's putting a value of zero on being fined (or worse). I don't think the risk is non-zero. Just takes one zealous AG to file a case against you (even if you're out of jurisdiction, there's a non-zero chance you might end up passing through at some point).
Re: Apps with millions of Google Play downloads covertly mine cryptocurrency
#90This could be an interesting model to do out in the open. Rather than covertly mine cryptocurrency, say that the app is free if you contribute hashes to a pool, or you can buy the premium version that doesn't. Almost like the "slow" version vs the "fast" version of an app.