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Minecraft creator says he’s canceled talks for Oculus Rift version

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Re: Minecraft creator says he’s canceled talks for Oculus Rift version

#131
What company isn't creepy these days? Google, Facebook and Amazon are a few companies of many that come to mind when I think of all the user data they hold, what they know and what they could use it for. Thems the breaks unfortunately.

I admire Notch standing up for what he believes in, but I just can't see how Facebook is creepier than anything else or affects the acquisition of Oculus. It's not like the gaming device is going to give Facebook any extra information it most likely doesn't already have on you.

It is also a known fact that Amazon are trying to move into the gaming space, as are others and what better way to move into a space that is largely undominated than buying the Oculus? If Facebook didn't buy Oculus, someone else would have, maybe Google or Amazon.

People keep iterating the statement, "But Facebook aren't a games company" which reminds me of a few years ago when people (especially Steve Balmer) were saying that Apple isn't a phone company and won't gain any market share.

Facebook have the funds, talent and workforce to go into any area they choose. Look at Google, what did they know about clean energy, driver-less car tech, cloud infrastructure hosting when they started? Nothing. And now look at them, through various acquisitions and talent hires, Google have become an empire and this is what Facebook are doing: building an empire.

Through previous acquisitions Facebook have proven that they leave them mostly untouched. Besides tighter integration with Facebook, what has changed in Instagram since it was acquired by Facebook? Nothing.

If anything, this is great for Oculus, because it means they won't have to repeatedly seek VC capital every time they want to iterate and improve the product: we the consumer win out of this.

The backlash is unwarranted and ridiculous in my opinion. People complaining over nothing.

Re: Minecraft creator says he’s canceled talks for Oculus Rift version

#132
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. But this goes further and lays bare the sheer stupidity inherent in kickstarter or any other crowd-sourcing platform. Just like facebook's Frankensteinian monstrous mish-mash of consumer/content/advertiser/publisher crowd-funding in its current state is a mish-mash that ends up meaning nothing in the end. You are not an equity partner, you really have no say in how decisions are made, you are not a lender, y…

"this ... lays bare the sheer stupidity inherent in kickstarter..." I'm sorry, but where is the stupidity? Kickstarter is a specific tool available to founders/innovators/creatives that allows us to reach a community of supporters quickly and efficiently. Like all tools, it has a specific way that it operates, and to keep such a new thing from spinning out of control, it is relatively simple and has few rules. Fortun…

I think what's stupid is participating in a Kickstarter campaign and then getting bent out of shape when the company doesn't do what you want.

When you contribute -- note contribute, but invest -- to a Kickstarter campaign, you're buying into the perk you get and pretty much nothing else.

I can understand being upset that the company didn't do what you hoped, but considering it an investment is a bit of an overestimation.

Re: Minecraft creator says he’s canceled talks for Oculus Rift version

#133

What company isn't creepy these days? Google, Facebook and Amazon are a few companies of many that come to mind when I think of all the user data they hold, what they know and what they could use it for. Thems the breaks unfortunately. I admire Notch standing up for what he believes in, but I just can't see how Facebook is creepier than anything else or affects the acquisition of Oculus. It's not like the gaming devi…

Notch didn't say Facebook acquiring Oculus was creepy. Notch said Facebook is creepy.

Besides tighter integration with Facebook, what has changed in Instagram since it was acquired by Facebook? Nothing.

You just pointed out exactly what changed with Instagram, and what everyone is afraid of changing with the Oculus.

"Log in to your Facebook account to continue playing."

Re: Minecraft creator says he’s canceled talks for Oculus Rift version

#134
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I said that it was silly to simply donate money to a commercial venture without gaining any stake in it, they called me a naysayer. Who's saying nay now?

You are quite right, of course. But kickstarter is a brand new animal in the world of products and financing. There aren't any laws or even any concrete social norms around it yet. Perhaps people should "know better' but I'm not sure that's helpful. In the absence of laws or codified rules we should expect to fall back on manners . What Oculus did feels bad because its rude . At the very least, they should recognize…

Why do people believe they're going back on their vision, or even on an unspoken promise? Perhaps the Oculus guys truly believe this acquisition is the way to realize the promise of the Rift. The Kickstarter contributors may not agree, but that's their problem, not the founders'.

Re: Minecraft creator says he’s canceled talks for Oculus Rift version

#135
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And ridiculous.

Yes. All of us who hate this development are irrational. That's the only explanation for this groundswell. I can't think of a single reason to be cynical about Facebook or about this deal.

Snark aside, people tend to lose all sense of perspective and objectivity anytime Facebook is mentioned. Especially the crowd around here.

I really, really don't understand the pathological and irrational hate for Facebook and/or ads.

Re: Minecraft creator says he’s canceled talks for Oculus Rift version

#136
post #3

> "Facebook creeps me out." Whether or not you agree with his decision, having Notch pull away from talks with you creates an instant credibility "situation". It's also noteable that Notch had been meeting with the Oculus team just two weeks ago[0], was tweeting about them in rather gushing terms[1] and seemed incredibly inspired to work on VR ideas[2]. He is now the personification of the a near universal feeling of…

Heh, from Carmack's twitter 1m ago: https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/448629403740692481 For the record, I am coding right now, just like I was last week. I expect the FB deal will avoid several embarrassing scaling crisis for VR. Glad to see Carmack is still being Carmack. EDIT: By the way, if anyone is wondering why people are having a negative reaction to this Facebook deal, I think one way to understand it…

> scaling crisis for VR.

That's supposing Facebook knows how to scale production of electronic items... apart from the cash, they have no relevant experience about that. If it had been Google or Microsoft there would already be people who know how to make it scale to mass production.

Re: Minecraft creator says he’s canceled talks for Oculus Rift version

#137
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> its intended purpose Which is what, exactly? I always thought the "killer app" of true VR would be socialization and collaboration: a "virtual world" in the sense of Second Life, OpenCobalt, or Neal Stephenson's metaverse . Facebook itself is the "casual" version of a socialization system. Facebook's biggest uncaptured market right now is people who prefer to socialize in a more "hardcore" fashion: in virtual world…

What on Earth would be the advantage of virtual reality over existing multiplayer games or skype?

World-of-Warcraft-like MMO games allow for "character customization", but on a moment-to-moment basis, character models are mostly static. You can read an explicit display of emotion if they choose to "emote" one, but there are no continuous subtle cues about how a person is continuing to feel about something.

Now, one of the interesting things about VR is that, provided your perspective is attached to an avatar, the only sensible place to put the "camera" is staring right out of the eyes of that avatar. This means that, whenever you're among other players in a shared VR environment, you're going to be constantly staring at up-close views of other people's avatars' faces, who are in turn staring back at you. So, if your VR equipment could read your facial cues, and replicate them on your avatar's face...

Basically: what are the advantages, over using Skype, of having meetings in a physical office? A VR office should be able to replicate those advantages.

Re: Minecraft creator says he’s canceled talks for Oculus Rift version

#138
post #128
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you're looking for something more than a gift, but are you actually entitled to more than that? Are you a shareholder in these companies than you fund through Kickstarter? I think not. So why do you think you have any rights beyond someone who's donating money to a cause that may never pan out? It's perfectly fine to fund something through Kickstarter, but for some reason it seems that some people doing it thin…

You are not listening to the person you are responding to. Nobody is going to argue that kickstarter backers are entitled to equity in the company, or that they have legal rights beyond what is guaranteed in the kickstarter. What the person is trying to get across is that in any financial transaction there are non-legal aspects involved. There are human relationships. The world runs on favors as much as it runs on co…

I'm listening. Are you? The parent of this thread quoted: "And I did not chip in ten grand to seed a first investment round to build value for a Facebook acquisition."

If you didn't chip in ten grand of seed money for that purpose why didn't you make that part of the deal then?

There are no non-legal aspects of financial transactions. When you give someone money they're going to try to retain that money and not give it back to you to the best of their legal ability. There really isn't a non-legal aspect involved in it unless you're a sucker who's willing to get screwed over.

Who cares about the value of their reputation when they've been bought by Facebook for some undisclosed value? Surely that's worth more to them than their reputation, seeing as they now have enough money to never work again with the people who'd care about their reputation.

Re: Minecraft creator says he’s canceled talks for Oculus Rift version

#139

What company isn't creepy these days? Google, Facebook and Amazon are a few companies of many that come to mind when I think of all the user data they hold, what they know and what they could use it for. Thems the breaks unfortunately. I admire Notch standing up for what he believes in, but I just can't see how Facebook is creepier than anything else or affects the acquisition of Oculus. It's not like the gaming devi…

The problem people have is that time and time again Facebook releases products, after massive amounts of engineering and research, that are focused on trivialities. Another way to flirt with people. Another way to post photos to the internet. A more fun way to read about the inane status update your ex-girlfriend posted about the food she just ate.

Look at Facebook's commercials, the ones where the person is on the phone reading about some random bullshit while they are at a dinner table with their family. Facebook wears their shallow view of human interaction on their sleeve: stupid interactions with your "friends" (ie, people you don't really see often in real life) are held up as some paragon of human communication. You don't discuss deep ideas on Facebook. You don't find information and increase human knowledge through Facebook. You don't experience new things or communicate with people outside of your comfort zone through Facebook.

Zuck gets on stage and talks about this world of global connections, and articulates this sweeping vision of a utopia where your whole life is enhanced by Facebook, but what we actually get are cat photos, fake cows, and people yukking it up about celebrity buzzfeed articles.

VR stands out as the tech with the most exciting potential of anything right now, and one that could be something that is driven by the entire community's imagination. Like the web was. The fear is that Facebook will devote its massive engineering resources towards applications of VR that are interesting and fun to 18 year olds trying to get laid, but on the whole not transformative for society in the way VR has the potential to be.

So fundamentally there are two questions. First, is Oculus going to have the latitude to grow its culture the way it was on track to, one which was centralized on applying VR in every way possible. On this front there is reason to be skeptical. The second question is if the environment for developing applications for VR is going to be an open, organic ecosystem despite the hardware provider being Facebook. This seems pretty unknowable, there isn't really a suitable analogy here. If VR takes off there very well could be entire platforms built for it, that recreate the computing experience as a whole. The fear is that this platform may very well be owned by Facebook, and will severely limit the latitude with which people can build experiences for VR.

Re: Minecraft creator says he’s canceled talks for Oculus Rift version

#140
"And I did not chip in ten grand to seed a first investment round to build value for a Facebook acquisition."

The community raised $2.5 million, which (in part) enabled Oculus to build the first round of prototypes. That's great. I'm sure that the Kickstarter money was burned through a long, long time ago. And as far as I know, Oculus has delivered on every backer reward it offered. So backers got to do two things: they got the rewards they were promised, and they got to support Oculus' growth -- as far as I know, that is exactly the premise of Kickstarter.

So now Oculus has grown, and as Notch himself says:

"They had fixed all the major issues, and all that remained was huge design and software implementation challenges."

Huge challenges. Including scaling up from building limited quantities of developer kits to trying to mass produce consumer hardware. Oculus was helped to get to this point by Kickstarter money, but that money wasn't going to get them any further, and there's still a very large gap between where Oculus is now and where they (and their backers) want them to be.

Do I trust Facebook? No. Would I trust Microsoft or Google or Amazon or Apple? Not really. But I don't need to trust; I can simply wait and see what Oculus does with the money Facebook is giving it, and see what Facebook expects of Oculus in return. It COULD be bad. Or it COULD help Oculus grow. But the feeling of betrayal by the Kickstarter backers seems to me misplaced; you paid money to help Oculus grow and succeed, and they have.

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