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Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments

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Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments

#561
post #421
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's more, since people with under 1000 karma can't fully participate because unlike high-karma users they can't see if their comment duplicates someone else's and will get stuck in limbo as a result, it's going to be rather difficult for them to reach the 1000 karma threshold - certainly more difficult than it is now.

> it's going to be rather difficult for them to reach the 1000 karma threshold - certainly more difficult than it is now. Then again, if their comment does become approved, it will be more visible than under the current system (less noise) and therefore likely to receive more upvotes. Also, their bad comments won't be punished with downvotes.

I don't have any numbers, but lets try to reason about this anyway.

Today, if you post a comment, someone sees it, and thinks is interesting, they'll upvote it. It seems reasonable that a comment on a fresh story (eg: on the home page) is more likely to be seen, and it might be more likely that a comment will be upvoted while it is still "young".

With the new system, you will get no karma until after some 1k karma curator notices your comment. Being approved (as I understand it) grants you no karma in and off itself, while (as someone else mentioned) normally that approval would've been equal to an upvote before. So if that's the case (easy fix: make upvote=approve) new comments on average earn one less point (so I might end up at .61 average, not 1.61 -- possibly fair indication that I talk too much).

At any rate -- anyone below 1k won't be able to upvote the comment until after approval, I don't know what kind of impact that'll have -- but it certainly means new users come to a substantially different playing field than old ones.

Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments

#562

No. Just no. Reasons: a) it WILL kill off those who want to remain (pseudo/ano)nymous and create throwaway accounts for discussing sensitive stuff (like the multiple "my startup is failing" posts in the last months) b) Sorry, but I (and many others) have actually lives to live and jobs to do. 1000+ karma users are not moderators, and many simply will be too lazy / too occupied to click "endorse" all the time. c) Disc…

Sorry, but I (and many others) have actually lives to live and jobs to do. 1000+ karma users are not moderators, and many simply will be too lazy / too occupied to click "endorse" all the time.

Well any site with community based content is going to fail if users don't interact with it. "Endorse" will just be the equivalent of upvoting something if it hasn't already been endorsed. It's not an onerous burden.

Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments

#563
post #162
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? This is substantial and not nasty. That's just a different point of view. Although it doesn't add a lot of context to his opinion. That's the problem with moderation. People will tend to endorse what supports their beliefs. You can endorse a post you don't agree with.

It's hyperbole. That comment claims it will make HN _useless_ .

What makes hyperbole so terrible? You recognized it was hyperbole, so you must also recognize the point he was making. It's funny to me that the GP is basically saying this change is unfavorable and will greatly diminish the value of HN to a great number of users, and your first "use" of this system is to say you would stifle that comment because it wouldn't affect you negatively. It's almost too perfect.

Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments

#565
A few questions:

> Someone who has a pending comment will have to wait till it goes live to post another.

Does this mean that if you write 1 bad comment which no one wants to endorse, you can effectively never comment on any thread again?

> Since I'm going to check out of HN at the end of this YC cycle

What do you mean by "check out"? Are you going to stop commenting?

Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments

#566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it was more conversational. There are lots of experts on here from a variety of disciplines, and a meaningful back and forth can be great on here. But, it's not a good fit for the current format. Perhaps if when a thread got too deep, it could collapse and require a reader to actively expand it. That would help support the threads that start to push too far to the right. But, it's probably better dealt with in…

Yeah, me too. There really needs to be an entirely new kind of discussion forum, something that merges the various strengths of phpBB, IRC, newsgroups, and reddit. I have some ideas on that, but sadly not the time to code it. I hope someone beats me to it.

I like conversational places. I guess a lot of this has to do with what type of place the creator wants to create and how they want to try to mold it into that.

My ideal place would clearly define types of behavior that were to be discouraged. For instance, I like to err on the side of suppressing vitriol too much, rather than letting it run too much. I like environments where everyone feels like they can try to contribute, or participate, without wondering if it'll come back at them. I have pretty strong feelings about how far that should go, though, and it's usually further than a lot of folks would, or at least, further than a lot of vocal folks would go.

But I guess that's just it. I think generic karma/votes tend to promote a more general idea of what's popular, or fun, but don't necessarily promote a specific well-defined ideal.

Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments

#567
post #274

My may concern with this system: Sledgehammer meets tack. The comments on HN aren't perfect, but they're far from bad when compared to other sites of this nature. There has been a downwards trend most probably due to the increasing popularity of HN. A response is warranted. However, this system has the potential to silence a lot of high quality comments on any threads that aren't on the front-page for an extended per…

Like you said, this change may lead to the case that "high quality comments on any threads that aren't on the front-page" will not be shown. The lack of those comments and subsequently the lack of a vibrant discussion might discourage other users from participating, leading to the article never making it to the front page.

I foresee this causing an even worse problem than low quality comments: The front page will be flooded with stories that make it their not because of the quality of the accompanied discussion, but because of the "clickability" of the article title.

However, it seems like there is a relatively simple solution. The number of "endorsements" required to activate a comment could be inversely proportional to the articles points. Or as some other users have suggest, it could be inversely proportional to the quantity of other comments on the same article.

Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments

#568

Can you say groupthink? What a terrible idea. HN is going to suck even more now. The best way to protest this idea is to ignore the site. Just ignore it and get some work done for a change.

The great thing about ignoring the site is it will just increase the groupthink.

Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments

#569
post #278

Will there be a 'show-dead' style option for those who choose to read HN unfiltered? Otherwise, new users are unable to judge for themselves whether they agree with how the community endorses comments*. Without such options any community eventually becomes a self-perputating hivemind.

I haven't implemented this yet but it would not be too hard.

My first thought was also "show-dead"; my second thought was a "comment cost".

Klocs are silly because they represent cost rather than value, correct? So perhaps comments should start out with (-1) karma rather than (0). That way, people will think twice about posting snark.

Re: Coming Soon to Hacker News: Pending Comments

#570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that graph include comments under "submissions", or only stories? I bet the latter. There are only so many conceivably-appropriate-for-HN stories out there, and many of the rest get taken out as spam. If the number of comments, on the other hand, hadn't gone up since 2012, I'd be shocked.

Submissions only. Here is a chart of the comments: http://i.imgur.com/4FwglA8.png

Thanks for making that! I'm not shocked. :)
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