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Zuckerberg, Musk Invest in Artificial-Intelligence Company Vicarious

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111–120 of 158 posts

Re: Zuckerberg, Musk Invest in Artificial-Intelligence Company Vicarious

#111
post #11

The AI winter is very much over, and we're back to the good old days of selling the future. I bet this team is very sharp, but there's still merit to "over-promise, under-deliver." "Phoenix, the co-founder, says Vicarious aims beyond image recognition. He said the next milestone will be creating a computer that can understand not just shapes and objects, but the textures associated with them. For example, a computer…

I assume you meant "under-promise, over-deliver".

Probably, but it's easier to get funding or acquired if you over-promise (and inevitably under-deliver).

Re: Zuckerberg, Musk Invest in Artificial-Intelligence Company Vicarious

#112
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We disagree about how well redistribution can and has worked at scale. My ultra-compressed (lossy) take is "pretty inefficient, but somewhat effective improving the lives of the less-wealthy". One of the most dramatic and promising examples of redistribution, GiveDirectly, is actually doing some followup research on the effectiveness of their redistribution, and it looks pretty good so far: (pdf warning) http://web.m…

I think there are pretty strong correlations between smaller social/political units and more effective, efficient, and non-corrupt welfare/redistribution systems. There isn't a Nordic country with a population greater than just the population of the New York metro area (let alone New York state...let alone the United States as a whole)

Even in Nordic countries "normal" is working for a living. They have big social and governmental institutions that have a lot of money passing through them and they manage to do that relatively efficiently. But, they don't have a complete disconnect between wealth creation by normal means (owning productive property and/or working) and consuming that wealth. The government is just more involved in the process.

If most people work, pay taxes and use the "free" public transport you still have a situation where most people are both funding the transportation and using it. Consumers & producers of stuff.

These futuristic ideas about AI doing all the work while most people are unnecessary creates a completely different jar of pickled fish.

Re: Zuckerberg, Musk Invest in Artificial-Intelligence Company Vicarious

#113

"Replicating the neocortex, the part of the brain that sees, controls the body, understands language and does math. Translate the neocortex into computer code and 'you have a computer that thinks like a person,” says Vicarious co-founder Scott Phoenix.'" Do you? Other than the language part it sounds like you may instead have an electronic lizard or cow. Add language and you might have an electronic parrot or dolphin…

Not trying to be rude here, I promise.

Don't those other animals not even have neocortices? Or if they do, they are very thin and smooth? I was under the impression that the human neocortex is abnormally thick and wrinkled, making it plausible that the reasoning capabilities are in fact in there.

The neocortex doesn't directly control the body or see, but there are bits that light up when we do. Lizards have the other parts of their brain, directly wired in. We have those parts, too, in addition to our neocortex.

Re: Zuckerberg, Musk Invest in Artificial-Intelligence Company Vicarious

#114

Call it what it is, an expert system, market research, a database of decisions/observations. Real "artificial intelligence" only exists in science fiction, in the minds of children playing with toys. Your computer (doll) won't ever love you back or have any awareness or understanding no matter how bad you want it to. It's a cool sounding buzzword for marketing, but if there's any intelligence here it's coming from a…

Man will never fly. You can't prove that birds fly because of their wings or air pressure. Therefore I am 100% certain that it's magic and can never be achieved by mere machinery.

Calling a air pressure differential machine "flying" is an insult and severe underestimation of what flying is. If you believe artificial flying is possible, you're missing out on what life has to offer--or you would never think a box of gears could come alive.

Re: Zuckerberg, Musk Invest in Artificial-Intelligence Company Vicarious

#115

"Replicating the neocortex, the part of the brain that sees, controls the body, understands language and does math. Translate the neocortex into computer code and 'you have a computer that thinks like a person,” says Vicarious co-founder Scott Phoenix.'" Do you? Other than the language part it sounds like you may instead have an electronic lizard or cow. Add language and you might have an electronic parrot or dolphin…

Well it's not clear where such high level functions come from, but it's certainly progress. Making an AI as smart as an animal would be an incredible advancement btw.

Re: Zuckerberg, Musk Invest in Artificial-Intelligence Company Vicarious

#116
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny to think that instead of curing diseases or making cheap renewable energy, we'd instead try to spend resources to invent a computer to do that for us...

So the question you should be asking is...if everyone agrees that cheap renewable energy and curing diseases is a good thing, why haven't we done it yet? I guess if you're cynical, you'd argue, because no one can make a profit from it (uh...right). However, if you see it as a pragmatic problem, then maybe the answer to why not? is because we need better ways to process information -- and this kind of unsupervised mac…

Why is curing all diseases a good thing?

Re: Zuckerberg, Musk Invest in Artificial-Intelligence Company Vicarious

#117
post #41

* First Law: A robot must never harm a human being or, through inaction, allow any human to come to harm. * Second Law: A robot must obey the orders given to them by human beings, except where such orders violate the First Law. * Third Law: A robot must protect its own existence unless this violates the First or Second Laws.

Obligatory: http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2013-03-28/

Re: Zuckerberg, Musk Invest in Artificial-Intelligence Company Vicarious

#118

This fits Elon Musk's vision. He had 3 main and 2 smaller things that in the future will most affect the future of humanity. Main: the Internet, the transition to a sustainable energy economy, and space exploration, particularly extension of life to multiple planets Smaller: artificial intelligence and biology

If AI succeeds, then none of those other things will matter at all.

> If AI succeeds, then none of those other things will matter at all.

Define success. Now define for whom - the investors? mankind? The AIs themselves?

Re: Zuckerberg, Musk Invest in Artificial-Intelligence Company Vicarious

#119
Look, guys, sure, in some sense computing is part of the best promise for AI. Fine. I'll even agree that at least for now computing is necessary.

But, note, nearly everything we've done in computing, especially in Silicon Valley for the past 15 years, has been to apply routine software development to work that we already well understood how to do manually. A small fraction of the efforts have been some excursions into more, but these have been relatively few and with rarely very impressive results. Net, what Silicon Valley does know how to do is build, say, SnapChat (right, it keeps the NSA spooks busy looking at the SnapChat intercepts from Sweden!).

But for anything that should be called AI, there is another challenge that is very much necessary -- how to do that. Or, if you will, write the software design documents from the top down to the level of the individual programming statements. Problem is, very likely and apparently, no one knows how the heck to do that.

Given a candidate design, people should want to review it, and about the only way to convince people, e.g., short of the running software passing the Turing test or some such, is to write out the design in terms of mathematics. Basically the only solid approach is via mathematics; essentially everything else is heuristics to be validated only in practice, that is, an implementation and not a design.

Thing is, I very much doubt that anyone knows how to write a design with such mathematics. If so, then long ago there should have been such in an AI journal or with DARPA funding.

Basically, bluntly, no one knows how to write software for anything real about AI. Sorry 'bout that.

Wby? We just do not know hardly anything about how the brain works. We don't know more about how the human brain works than my kitty cat knows about how my computer works. Sorry 'bout that. And AI software will have a heck of a time catching up with my kitty cat.

By analogy, we don't know more about how to program AI than Leonardo da Vinci knew about how to build a Boeing 777. Heck the Russians didn't even know how to build an SR-71. Da Vinci could draw a picture of a flying machine, but he had no clue about how to build one. Heck, Langley fell into the Potomac River! Instead, the Wright brothers built a useful wind tunnel (didn't understand Reynolds number), actually were able to calculate lift, drag, thrust, and engine horsepower, and had found a solution to three axis control -- Langley failed at those challenges, and da Vinci was lost much farther back in the woods.

We now know how our daughters can avoid cervical cancer. Before the solution, "we dance 'round and 'round and suppose, and the secret sits in the middle, and knows.", and we didn't know. Well, the cause was HPV, and now there is a vaccine. Progress. Possible? Yes. Easy? No. AI? We're not close enough to be in the same solar system. F'get about AI.

Re: Zuckerberg, Musk Invest in Artificial-Intelligence Company Vicarious

#120
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the brain having a programming language would have to be based on a lot of assumptions that not everyone is willing to make.

I don't think he meant that in the literal sense, hence the quotes. The brain's "programming language" refers more the to the idea of what makes the brain's biological structure work to produce human perception.

I realize that, I made my comment towards this being a metaphor and I still stand by it.
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