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The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

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Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#181

Post by primitivesuave »

melindajb wrote: post #143
sliverstorm wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't live anywhere close to SF; it's nothing to do with me personally. It's just funny to read the two threads of thought, both written by women: SF is full of sexist men making unwelcome advances on women SF dating scene is dead, men won't make a move Do you not see the slightest humor in that? Actually, having written it out like that, I wonder if one thread begot the other.

again, you're incapable of recognizing these are two entirely different situations? Ok, here's what you sound like. People complained my shit stinks when I shit in the bathroom. People complained when I took a shit on my grandmother's dining room rug. I get so confused about where to take a shit!

Any other analogy you could have made is better than the analogy you made.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#182

Post by Dewie »

jfarmer wrote: post #174
your_throwaway wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enlighten me. And while you're at it: why is okay for Louis CK to make a racist joke, but not okay for you? If the joke is hurtful, then shouldn't you be against Louis CK telling it? Why are you okay with that? Why are you giving him support for doing something hurtful? And I didn't say I wasn't capable of being sexist because my best friend is a woman. I said that if I treated a woman at a conference the same way th…

> And while you're at it: why is okay for Louis CK to make a racist joke, but not okay for you? Why it is ok for the jester to mock the king, but not for the king to mock the jester? On a related note, Louis CK is Mexican, as in a Mexican citizen born in Mexico. Spanish is his first language and he came to the US as a little kid.

He's also pretty much as white as they get. He has mostly European ancestry, little indigenous American ancestry.

The subject was race, not nationality.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#183

Post by richliss »

TL:DR - You pure development guys are more likely to have success if you realise you have a need for people with other complimentary skills, and you need to have respect for them, their intelligence and their role.

I've seen this so many times its tragic, and it comes down to largely one thing IMHO... the arrogance of extremely intelligent people with specialties in maths/physics or other numeracy focused backgrounds over other people.

How about an office move where developers sat around and bitched because network cables hadn't been moved across yet? Young office admin girl shows initiative and drives to old office and gets all the network cables. They now see her as their runner as they know that she's paid less so therefore its optimal.

Its crunch time and a ScrumMaster who goes and gets coffee for the team before a release so they stick to working is then perpetually told "We're busy, coffee needed", and is slowly reduced to Team Mom, or worse Janitor.

A startup's CTO and part shareholder overrules the Head of Marketing and lead designers on their design choice because he's read an article saying how Arial is optimal for reading, and then gets involved in every decision. Only once the CTO is moved on does the sales and marketing team really start performing and the company is saved.

I've seen numerous friends who are extremely technically capable Java developers create excellent technical solutions in the finance space to problems that people won't pay for, or don't need solving, or that they don't know how to market or keep running 24/7. They see MBA's as a waste despite their MBA friend saying "Look at the market segmentation, and consider your positioning to see if you can compete" - A valid point that could have answered the question before the £80K in lost wages.

I've had conversations where I've quoted a previous stand-in lecturer who was worth £110m from 3 different startups who told of the importance of a well rounded team including sales, finance etc. to young developers who think that DHH is basically a prophet, they only need tech guys and if you build it they will come, and their answers to me were words to the effect of "I disagree because HN said so".

I'd rather put £1000 of investment money in the hands of a proven sales guy's startup than a proven back-end developer, as I've seen first hand that a great sales guy can sell crap and make money.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#184

Post by theorique »

stephenaturner wrote: post #9
theorique wrote: post #6

From the VBScript and complex spreadsheet wrangling required to perform analysis of key organizational metrics to mastery of numerous different specialized softwares and systems in order to perform basic functions of the job ranging from accounting to people operations, non-technical employees must have a bevy of technical skills at the ready every single day. In fact, I had to code a sample app using the company’s A…

Maybe her argument is that she's less technical than the engineers (and therefore looked down upon unnecessarily, leading to this article), even if she has to be far more technical than the average person, just to get the job.

I think you're probably right. "Less Technical" or "Not As Technical" is more accurate.

Perhaps "non-SE" or "non-Programmer" or "non-Engineer" might be closest to what we're trying to say here.

It's unfortunate that some technical people look down on others in these kind of roles.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#185

Post by xerophtye »

route66 wrote: post #177
piokoch wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. My coworker's kid goes to kindergarten where on of the teachers is male. This guy really had a hard time at the beginning. Parents were very suspicious and worried (why "man" is working in kindergarden???) or took him for a repairman. The article's author is simply a victim of statistics. If at the conference there is 150 "booth babies" and 300 male engineers, but in one booth there is a female engineer, people…

> I think nobody is to blame here An industry who employs women as booth babes , apparently because staring at a booth babe sells tech better? Stinks.

While yes,I am completely against the usage of booth babes (they don't work anyways[1]) But... I kinda feel weird about just blaming the industry as if it was a human-trafficking mafia. Booth babes aren't slaves you know... they CHOSE to work in that role. So they have a share of the blame, no?

PS: Not saying all women are to blame! But you smart intellectual ladies gotta agree that they contribute to the problem (just as the people who employ them)

[1] techcrunch.com/2014/01/13/booth-babes-dont-convert/

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#186

Post by odonnellryan »

ericabiz wrote: post #14

The situation described at the tradeshow in this article has also happened to me, repeatedly and consistently. The difference? I AM technical. I just also happen to be a woman. I love the tech industry. I've been in it professionally since 1997, and I've run tech startups as a CEO for the past 13 years. And if there's one thing I can count on, it's the consistent, pervasive assumption that I'm not technical. I hate g…

I'm not trying to be insulting here in any way, and I hope I come across correctly.

It's not your fault, and it's a horrible situation that many people would love to see changed. I love talking about technology, and it's unfortunate the culture is the way it is where it alienates part of the community for discussion.

However, with all such things -- while it is worthwhile to push for change -- they must be taken in stride and seen as obstacles to overcome.

Take what you think is a weakness in your situation: that you're underestimated, or maybe ignored, as your strength.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#187

Post by route66 »

xerophtye wrote: post #185
route66 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think nobody is to blame here An industry who employs women as booth babes , apparently because staring at a booth babe sells tech better? Stinks.

While yes,I am completely against the usage of booth babes (they don't work anyways[1]) But... I kinda feel weird about just blaming the industry as if it was a human-trafficking mafia. Booth babes aren't slaves you know... they CHOSE to work in that role. So they have a share of the blame, no? PS: Not saying all women are to blame! But you smart intellectual ladies gotta agree that they contribute to the problem (ju…

I am probably not smart, maybe not intellectual but most definitely not a lady.

As for the industry: seemingly the industry thinks that showing ass and tits on a booth is worth it. That alone says enough. It is not about the ones who are earning their money there but the ones who think that their industry needs that. No discussion of "choice" needed.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#188

Post by Dewie »

melindajb wrote: post #62
balls187 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, no, no, no and no. Stop it. Nice job in raising the level of discourse here.

oh because claiming a bullshit voodoo science as argument was so earth shattering? seriously. especially coming from someone with "balls" in the name. read the link. Love it, i'm now not being allowed to reply. I love how it's ok for guys on hacker news to denigrate and insult women and minorities but if we say, look stop it, you're all suddenly begging for rationality. NOTHING about pattern matching is rational. So…

> Love it, i'm now not being allowed to reply.

If someone just posted something, there is a cool down period before you can reply. Maybe that was the case.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#189

Post by benjamincburns »

theorique wrote: post #6

From the VBScript and complex spreadsheet wrangling required to perform analysis of key organizational metrics to mastery of numerous different specialized softwares and systems in order to perform basic functions of the job ranging from accounting to people operations, non-technical employees must have a bevy of technical skills at the ready every single day. In fact, I had to code a sample app using the company’s A…

> or the primary focus of the person's role

That one.

A implies B does not necessarily mean that B implies A. She's just saying that it's possible for a person to have skills beyond those required for their role. The examples you quoted aren't listed as what should be expectations of her role, they're examples of how she often pulls in her not-in-the-job-req skills in the service of her official duties.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#190

Post by jokenick »

codr wrote: post #159
your_throwaway wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the same respect I treat my best friend? Well, first: my best friend is a woman. And could you please enumerate for me what constitutes a sexist joke? My aforementioned best friend (who I have had this conversation with) as well as most of the women friends I've had this conversation with agree that things like "dongle" jokes are hilarious . So are racist jokes (do you seriously not tell any racist jokes? Ever?…

> but you're right: young. You forgot entitled. Also - racist jokes, really? Tell us a good one.

What is ten inches long and while? ... Nothing.

Oh, I have another one:

Jewess is sitting in a tram car and crying. One lady feels sorry for her, and wants to brighten her mood. So she goes to her, puts hand on her shoulder and says "Don't cry, I do believe in that holocaust of yours."

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