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The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

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Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#151

Post by melindajb »

melindajb wrote: post #147
your_throwaway wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enlighten me. And while you're at it: why is okay for Louis CK to make a racist joke, but not okay for you? If the joke is hurtful, then shouldn't you be against Louis CK telling it? Why are you okay with that? Why are you giving him support for doing something hurtful? And I didn't say I wasn't capable of being sexist because my best friend is a woman. I said that if I treated a woman at a conference the same way th…

Louis CK, to the best of my knowledge, is not considered a racist. I would not be the best judge of that as a white person, and when I am, I look to my black friends to tell me. I don't make them "explain" it to me. I just accept it. The know better than I do what makes something racist. And usually it's something I had never considered because of my white privilege. The fault, is not in my logic, but your dogged ins…

really, I eat downvotes for breakfast. so thanks!

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#152

Post by balls187 »

melindajb wrote: post #76
balls187 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you to a point, devs would benefit with understanding "the other side of the house" and that sales, marketing, and administration are all important aspects of building a healthy business. We have different roles to play in the success of an organization; at different times each role has different values, but as people we're all valuable. Of course your side of the house is always out of the office by 5p…

that kind of response is exactly what i'm referring to above. I'm a non technical founder and I work literally side by side the same hours as my technical co founder. Maybe at different times, because he's a night owl and a lot of business and marketing stuff can't be done at 3am hopped up on red bull. But the same time. And there was a line of former coworker engineers for the co founder position, so he's not an out…

I expect all founders to work hard. My 5p comment was a joke. I'd be very wary of a founder of an early stage startup that bolted that early.

If you want to compare two sides of a founding partnership, the facts is the technical cofounder, early on, is more valuable member of the founding team.

Two non-technical co-founders, vs two technical co-founders. Which will have a higher outcome of success?

"I've built a prototype, I need help getting customers." "I've got customers, I need help building a product."

Even in just market terms--how many people will try to recruit the non-technical founder vs the technical founder for a position?

As a techincal co-founder, I could do the non-technical portion: get customers, do market validation, read termsheets, talk with investors, recruit, manage payroll AND do my job: build awesome product. There isn't a hard science to being the non-technical founder--Y Combinator is what, a 3-month bootcamp to teach founders what they need to know about running a startup. Try learning everything you need to know to be a technical cofounder in 3-months.

You can learn a lot about being the non-technical founder by trying your hand at starting a company. The same is not true about writing product.

Again, the founder relationship is important, and you need both halves to succeed, but if you want to pick who is more valuable to the organization, and who has the harder job, it is the technical co-founder.

This rant assumes the non-technical person has little to no coding abilities, and these are "first time" founders with no prior successful exits.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#153

Post by enry_straker »

melindajb wrote: post #143
sliverstorm wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't live anywhere close to SF; it's nothing to do with me personally. It's just funny to read the two threads of thought, both written by women: SF is full of sexist men making unwelcome advances on women SF dating scene is dead, men won't make a move Do you not see the slightest humor in that? Actually, having written it out like that, I wonder if one thread begot the other.

again, you're incapable of recognizing these are two entirely different situations? Ok, here's what you sound like. People complained my shit stinks when I shit in the bathroom. People complained when I took a shit on my grandmother's dining room rug. I get so confused about where to take a shit!

Wow. What an inappropriate analogy. Way to go.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#154

Post by sliverstorm »

melindajb wrote: post #143
sliverstorm wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't live anywhere close to SF; it's nothing to do with me personally. It's just funny to read the two threads of thought, both written by women: SF is full of sexist men making unwelcome advances on women SF dating scene is dead, men won't make a move Do you not see the slightest humor in that? Actually, having written it out like that, I wonder if one thread begot the other.

again, you're incapable of recognizing these are two entirely different situations? Ok, here's what you sound like. People complained my shit stinks when I shit in the bathroom. People complained when I took a shit on my grandmother's dining room rug. I get so confused about where to take a shit!

Your anger is really not a very effective discussion tactic. You might think me the idiot, but you're doing an excellent job making a fool of yourself.

Anyway, I'll find humor wherever I please, and you'll just have to live with that.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#155

Post by jtfrench »

ericabiz wrote: post #14

The situation described at the tradeshow in this article has also happened to me, repeatedly and consistently. The difference? I AM technical. I just also happen to be a woman. I love the tech industry. I've been in it professionally since 1997, and I've run tech startups as a CEO for the past 13 years. And if there's one thing I can count on, it's the consistent, pervasive assumption that I'm not technical. I hate g…

I've seen this happen as well. As a black male CEO of a VC-funded startup, I've also seen it happen to me in a slightly different way. I gotta hype up the nerdiness, the glasses, and casually name-drop my college degree just to help those around me not embarrass themselves by assuming "I'm not the guy writing the code". Unfortunately, I'm quite used to this though and rarely think to share this experience with anyone because this has been My Whole Life.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#156

Post by lambda »

your_throwaway wrote: post #136
lambda wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, it's really not hard to have a technical conversation with someone and not come off as creepy. If you feel like you have to worry about this all the time, there's something seriously off about your interpersonal instincts. I'm a pretty socially awkward nerdy guy, and I've never had a problem with being able to have a technical conversation with a woman without being accused of "mansplaining", "being overly aggr…

We are literally on the exact same page. You're enumerating my point. Inviting somebody for beers isn't hitting on them, but I have been told by women exactly why this is not okay . (In conversations like this one. This sort of "hey that's not okay" doesn't ever seem to actually come up in real life) I agree that it's totally normal to compliment people on what they're wearing, and I, like you, do this to my coworker…

> Inviting somebody for beers isn't hitting on them

That's not true. It can be hitting on them, or it can not be. If you think you might be in a grey area, maybe err on the side of making it feel safer by making it a group outing rather than putting them on the spot. Don't use that doubt about the grey area as an excuse for avoiding talking to women at all, however.

> Except, again, there are lots of vocal people screaming how this is not okay.

I have never heard someone scream such a thing. Jesus, if I complimented someone and they screamed at me, I'd think they were crazy. Do people really scream about that at you?

Remember, don't confuse vocal debate on Twitter or HN with screaming. It's really not the same. People are frequently more blunt online than they are in real life. This happens in all directions. But don't act like it's the end of the world when a few people are overly vocal on the internet.

Also, don't respond to legitimate, reasonable complaints, like "I'm the technical person coming to this conference and people ignore me and talk to my fiance instead" with "well yeah, but this other thing over here blew up way out of proportion on the internet, so I can't treat you like a normal person in real life."

Yes, there is occasional overreaction that has real life consequences, like the unfortunate PyCon "dongle" incident. That's really the exception rather than the rule, however, and the real-life consequences happened in both directions. Note that many, many prominent feminist writers came out against both Adria Richard's actions and those of the the company that fired the guy making the joke.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#157

Post by pseut »

your_throwaway wrote: post #110
ericabiz wrote: post #14

The situation described at the tradeshow in this article has also happened to me, repeatedly and consistently. The difference? I AM technical. I just also happen to be a woman. I love the tech industry. I've been in it professionally since 1997, and I've run tech startups as a CEO for the past 13 years. And if there's one thing I can count on, it's the consistent, pervasive assumption that I'm not technical. I hate g…

Yeah, except when I do start a conversation with you, I'm hitting on you, and probably being "creepy". I have to navigate a mental minefield of "don't say this" "don't say that too much" or "don't be overly aggressive", otherwise I get screamed about on twitter, labeled as a misogynist, and possibly fired from my job. (Uh-oh, I said dongle! Or...[1]meritocracy!) I'm not saying women in tech don't have problems, they…

>Gender dynamics are hard, for EVERYBODY.

I know. But they're probably harder when you're also making less money and having your credentials questioned.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#158

Post by teacup50 »

melindajb wrote: post #143
sliverstorm wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't live anywhere close to SF; it's nothing to do with me personally. It's just funny to read the two threads of thought, both written by women: SF is full of sexist men making unwelcome advances on women SF dating scene is dead, men won't make a move Do you not see the slightest humor in that? Actually, having written it out like that, I wonder if one thread begot the other.

again, you're incapable of recognizing these are two entirely different situations? Ok, here's what you sound like. People complained my shit stinks when I shit in the bathroom. People complained when I took a shit on my grandmother's dining room rug. I get so confused about where to take a shit!

> again, you're incapable of recognizing these are two entirely different situations?

Are they, really? I dated multiple women from work before I met my wife. It's not earth shattering -- we spend 8 hours a day with these people, and there's bound to be some level of attraction between some of them.

Not everyone thinks exactly the way you do. Things go more smoothly when you aim to be understanding of those differences.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#159

Post by codr »

your_throwaway wrote: post #139
melindajb wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can override the animal instincts to kill other humans, why is it so hard to override your thoughts and just treat all other humans with the same respect you'd give your best friend, at least until you see a valid reason not to? No one is saying that getting a beer after work is bad, or telling jokes is bad, or that thinking is bad. this is hand waving. We're asking you, again, to a) understand that lots of dr…

With the same respect I treat my best friend? Well, first: my best friend is a woman. And could you please enumerate for me what constitutes a sexist joke? My aforementioned best friend (who I have had this conversation with) as well as most of the women friends I've had this conversation with agree that things like "dongle" jokes are hilarious . So are racist jokes (do you seriously not tell any racist jokes? Ever?…

> but you're right: young.

You forgot entitled.

Also - racist jokes, really? Tell us a good one.

Re: The Myth of the Non-Technical Startup Employee

#160

Post by [deleted] »

melindajb wrote: post #151
melindajb wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Louis CK, to the best of my knowledge, is not considered a racist. I would not be the best judge of that as a white person, and when I am, I look to my black friends to tell me. I don't make them "explain" it to me. I just accept it. The know better than I do what makes something racist. And usually it's something I had never considered because of my white privilege. The fault, is not in my logic, but your dogged ins…

really, I eat downvotes for breakfast. so thanks!

[deleted]
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