Apple Designer Jonathan Ive Talks About Steve Jobs and New Products • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Designer Jonathan Ive Talks About Steve Jobs and New Products

#121

Post by fpgeek » Tue, Mar 18, 2014, 3:59 AM UTC

lazyjones wrote: post #65

ameister14 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that begging for a scathing reply? >People who need to save $200 on a tablet where we live very likely do not need said tablet at all You essentially said that if you cant afford the 200 dollars more for an arguably better product, you don't actually need it or its substitutes. I made an analogy with food. Just because I can't afford to eat something expensive doesn't mean I shouldn't eat anything beyond the c…

> I made an analogy with food. But electronic gadgets aren't food. One of my points was that they are (to the extent we spend money on) not necessary. It's indicative of an attempt to derail this that you chose an analogy with, of all things, food (which is kinda necessary, don't you agree?). > You don't know if a guy making 500 dollars a week needs a tablet for some reason, but you at least appear to think he doesn'…

You're missing the point. Once you have a subsistence diet (i.e. the cabbage, egg and rice), better and/or more food isn't strictly necessary. It's just desirable.

So your tablet argument becomes: "if I can't afford the foie gras, I shouldn't bother with a decent cheese plate either", which is obviously wrong for a variety of reasons (including that some people just don't like foie gras).

Re: Apple Designer Jonathan Ive Talks About Steve Jobs and New Products

#122

Post by fpgeek » Tue, Mar 18, 2014, 4:04 AM UTC

simonh wrote: post #73

Pxtl wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I think Apple makes stellar products (I won't use them because of IP issues, but they're still incredible produts) but talk like that - claiming your competition doesn't give a crap and is just throwing shoddy goods out the door? It reeks of desperation. Android has its faults, but it would be absurd to say that Google doesn't care about the platform. The Nexus line itself demonstrates that they want these…

Exaggeration perhaps, but hardly desperation. The thing is Google and many of the Android device manufacturers really do thow shoddy goods out the door. not always, not every product, not every time, but embarrassingly often. Anyone remember the first generation Google TV boxes with unusable UIs in which vital controls would be completely hidden by other UI elements, rendering the whole thing essentially unusable? Ev…

> The thing is Google and many of the Android device manufacturers really do thow shoddy goods out the door. not always, not every product, not every time, but embarrassingly often.

And sometimes they put out products that many people think are embarrassingly bad that turn out to be wonderful (e.g. Galaxy Note). Apple and the Android ecosystem have radically different development models. Merely looking at the raw output is a poor way to understand what's really going on.

Re: Apple Designer Jonathan Ive Talks About Steve Jobs and New Products

#123

Post by fpgeek » Tue, Mar 18, 2014, 4:08 AM UTC

MaysonL wrote: post #58

skore wrote: post #27

> A phone is just a phone, not the second coming of Christ. “What people are responding to is much bigger than the object. They are responding to something rare — a group of people who do more than simply make something work, they make the very best products they possibly can. It’s a demonstration against thoughtlessness and carelessness,” > [...]when I ask whether he is flattered or frustrated when he sees his desig…

> Maybe the identity crisis that Apple has isn't so much their inability to find the next big thing, but their over-attachment to their past hits? Perhaps the key to new glory is letting go of the old glory and sharing it with the world, their ego removed from the equation? Compare Microsoft's attachment to, and unwillingness to consider letting go of, Windows, with Apple's triaging of the iPod and Mac...

Windows 8, for all of its faults, comprehensively demonstrated that it isn't Microsoft that's unwilling to let go of Windows - it's their customers (which isn't surprising for a company whose products are in the process of being disrupted).

Re: Apple Designer Jonathan Ive Talks About Steve Jobs and New Products

#124

Post by fpgeek » Tue, Mar 18, 2014, 4:14 AM UTC

Jtsummers wrote: post #10

Zikes wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the MacBook charge cables that consistently break and need replaced on nearly a yearly basis.

I've seen many complaints about the charge cables, but never had an issue myself. Are there just some bad batches running around, or is it a particular model that's had issues?

For me the biggest issue is that Apple went too far in trading utility for portability with their adapters. For instance, there's at least one model of MacBook Pro (from a few years back) that, when it's running flat out, drains its battery even when plugged in. I know that's a perfectly reasonable tradeoff for the many people who don't use the full power of their laptop most of the time, but for someone who wants to it's frustrating (especially since, so far as I can tell, there isn't even a more powerful adapter you can buy up to).

I happen to prefer "the brick" Lenovo bundled with a comparable laptop. It does the job when plugged in (can charge the battery even if the laptop is going full blast) and there are adapters I can buy down to if I want something more portable.

Re: Apple Designer Jonathan Ive Talks About Steve Jobs and New Products

#125

Post by bananas » Tue, Mar 18, 2014, 7:10 AM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #107

bananas wrote: post #38

Let us not forget, he designed the "Puck Mouse" that came with the iMac and G3 towers...

what have you designed?

Many enclosures for electronic equipment, front panel designs for avionics and military equipment, many software interfaces, my house (which I'm trying to get planning permission for).

I even built software for design and simulation of electronic equipment do you can test usability before you commit to building.

Re: Apple Designer Jonathan Ive Talks About Steve Jobs and New Products

#126

Post by wavefunction » Tue, Mar 18, 2014, 11:38 AM UTC

jbigelow76 wrote: post #36

hahainternet wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's funny is he goes on to pretend that iPhones are expensive because they're made with space age technologies like DIAMOND TIPPED CUTTERS. Shame that their margins are public knowledge and we know he's talking utter shit.

Diamond tip cut iPhones are the "steel cut oats" of the tech world.

I like this sentiment, to a point. Steel cut oats do have a special value when the only available alternative is "instant oatmeal."

Not saying that's the case here, but that a true gradient in offerings is not always existent.

Re: Apple Designer Jonathan Ive Talks About Steve Jobs and New Products

#127

Post by VeejayRampay » Tue, Mar 18, 2014, 1:17 PM UTC

T-zex wrote: post #4

"We make and sell a very, very large number of (hopefully) beautiful, well-made things. our success is a victory for purity, integrity — for giving a damn." Surely he's not talking about the headphones supplied with iDevices.

Or the Apple Store update servers for Mac OS X, who prompt a "Couldn't get the updates on the server at this time. Please try at a later time". Or the little black plastic pads covering the screws below MacBook Pros who get loose so easily, or tons of other examples like that. Apple products are rather good in terms of build, but it's not like it's the greatest ever either.

Re: Apple Designer Jonathan Ive Talks About Steve Jobs and New Products

#128

Post by mercer » Tue, Mar 18, 2014, 4:13 PM UTC

bananas wrote: post #81

Geee wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're holding them wrong. Seriously, what do you mean by 'goes flat'? The bottom wears off? Or battery? Just get a charger, not a big deal. Also, I can't find a position where it nips my fingers. Bottom doesn't fall of if you close it properly. I haven't had any of such problems with Magic Mouse, although I miss the middle button. Scrolling in both directions is much better than any other mouse.

Batteries. I bought a charger and Sanyo Eneloops (low self discharge). Life is terrible. Stick your fingers on the side and press the top down - ouch. Bottom does fall off mine even when closed "properly".

I think the crucial part is how you hold it. I suspect most people dislike the Magic Mouse because they hold it like a regular mouse. The way I hold it, on the other hand, is with a 'cupped' hand where my thumb and ring finger clasp the mouse and move it, my palm hovers pretty high above the mouse, and my index finger scrolls from slightly above the center of the mouse surface.

I'm not sure whether it's bad design that you 'should' hold it differently, but at least for me this is why I quite like the mouse.

(the bottom has started coming off though. that does bother me)

Re: Apple Designer Jonathan Ive Talks About Steve Jobs and New Products

#129

Post by jbigelow76 » Tue, Mar 18, 2014, 4:19 PM UTC

wavefunction wrote: post #126

jbigelow76 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diamond tip cut iPhones are the "steel cut oats" of the tech world.

I like this sentiment, to a point. Steel cut oats do have a special value when the only available alternative is "instant oatmeal." Not saying that's the case here, but that a true gradient in offerings is not always existent.

It's not that there is no alternative to steel cut oats that aren't "instant", alternatives aren't the point. It's that the "steel cut" part is marketing bullshit. If I put two cups of oats, one cut down with a steel sickle and one with a plastic, there is going to be no discernible difference in taste.

Re: Apple Designer Jonathan Ive Talks About Steve Jobs and New Products

#130

Post by jdietrich » Tue, Mar 18, 2014, 5:33 PM UTC

mrcwinn wrote: post #2

Sooooooooo... "We’re surrounded by anonymous, poorly made objects. It’s tempting to think it’s because the people who use them don’t care — just like the people who make them." I am certainly a big believer in "giving a damn" about design and code. I completely believe that people "feel" the care that went into a product. I myself have agonized over a detail without any direct evidence that anyone, anywhere, would ev…

Good design is cheap, timeless and virtually invisible. The world is full of products so brilliantly designed that they have endured for decades unchanged, because there is nothing left to improve. We don't notice these products, because they are ubiquitous and seem to have been there forever. The iPhone/iPad is the initiator of such a breed of design, and modern handheld devices are broadly converging on a similar featureless slab design. Before long, we'll all have forgotten that things were ever any different, just as the Mac's WIMP interface went from being a revolution to the default within a decade or so.

The ballpoint pen, the bottlecap, the Clipper lighter, cinderblocks, the Yale lock and key. We're surrounded by objects of sublime brilliance, most of which are trivially inexpensive, but we just don't notice them because they're part of the fabric of our lives.

Look at the faucet in your bathroom. It's a shitty, ugly piece of design, because all faucets are awful. Go to Home Depot and you'll see a hundred different kinds of faucet, all of them ugly in their own way, all of them annoying to use. Maybe one day, some genius will invent a brilliant new kind of faucet that becomes a fashion item, then a much-imitated fad, then just how faucets look, then just how all faucets have always looked. But before that can happen, some smart people need to care more about faucets than anything else in the world.