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The Financial Sector Is the Greatest Parasite in Human History

neweconomicperspectives.org

41–50 of 85 posts

Re: The Financial Sector Is the Greatest Parasite in Human History

#41
post #24
post #7

The financial sector provides no services? What? If I want to sell my company, the banks sure as hell provide a service. They provide a valuation, put together a pitch book, shop the company around and close the deal. How is that not a service?

What about credit cards, debit cards, checking, savings, ATM, online banking, mortgages, heloc, etc?

All of those things (except the online part) existed 30 years ago when the sector in question represented a much smaller part of the overall economy. Many of those services have gotten much worse for the consumer at the same time as costs for providing have gone down.

Remember when we were supposed to appreciate having a "personal banker"?

Re: The Financial Sector Is the Greatest Parasite in Human History

#43

“The few who understand the system will either be so interested in its profits or be so dependent upon its favours that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of people, mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical…

Fake, according to http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Conspiracy.

Re: The Financial Sector Is the Greatest Parasite in Human History

#44
post #29
post #7

The financial sector provides no services? What? If I want to sell my company, the banks sure as hell provide a service. They provide a valuation, put together a pitch book, shop the company around and close the deal. How is that not a service?

You can provide a service that is a net loss overall, but still a benefit to a few. It's the tragedy of the commons. Let's make it simple and say there are two villages. Some people in village A decide to start raiding crops from village B, because they find they can steal crops more easily than growing them, so stealing is a net benefit to village A. Village B, noticing the theft, decides to start paying some farmer…

Banks bear risk.

when you want to borrow, they lend. when companies raise capital, they put the issuance on their balance sheets first. when banks make markets, they hold inventory with no ready buyer/seller.

we pay them so that we avoid having to take on that risk.

in your scenario, what if Dave is buying the house to move to a new city to take a job paying twice what he was making before? if the bank never stepped in, he could never have realized that opportunity. the bank is, of course, indifferent to Dave's motivations. For all we know Dave could really be an idiot. the bank simply bears the risk of Dave defaulting and as a consequence makes money from doing so.

Re: The Financial Sector Is the Greatest Parasite in Human History

#45
post #29
post #7

The financial sector provides no services? What? If I want to sell my company, the banks sure as hell provide a service. They provide a valuation, put together a pitch book, shop the company around and close the deal. How is that not a service?

You can provide a service that is a net loss overall, but still a benefit to a few. It's the tragedy of the commons. Let's make it simple and say there are two villages. Some people in village A decide to start raiding crops from village B, because they find they can steal crops more easily than growing them, so stealing is a net benefit to village A. Village B, noticing the theft, decides to start paying some farmer…

What is unjust or inefficient about your example with purchasing the house?

Should Dave not be allowed to borrow money to own a house? Should only the wealthy, with sufficient cash reserves, be permitted to buy a house, without financing?

If you don't value the house as much as Dave -- on a net present value of the future payments you have to make to own it -- why should you have it, instead of Dave?

Should real estate prices be capped, by a central planning board, so that Dave cannot borrow too much to own it? If so how does the seller choose who to sell to, between you and Dave? Who says the house is worth X, and not Y, when Dave is happy to pay Y?

Or is it unjust that Dave likes the house enough to commit much of his future income to it?

Why is Dave a moron? Because he disagrees with you on what to use his future income for? Should you be able to tell Dave what to spend money on, and what not, out of your view of what is socially efficient?

Perhaps not just you; you could get a few of your neighbors together and call a vote on what Dave can spend his money on. Based on social utility, of course.

But to go back to your example. Suppose you choose not to outbid Dave, because you are smarter, and instead opt to rent an efficiency studio and save up over your life and build a sizable amount of investment assets (because you did not spend frivolously on a large house). As you age, you look for your savings to work for you, because you were smart enough to defer consumption and now you feel you should be rewarded.

Where to put your assets? There are many choices. Should one of them not be the option to lend Dave's son, Dave Jr., money for his own house, in return for a level of interest to compensate you for use of your capital? But that's a pain to find the borrower and vet him, and risky if it's just relying on Dave Jr (who may be a moron like his father).

What if there was an agent you could pay, who would originate the loan, check that the title was valid, check Dave Jr.'s credit, author the loan documents, and then provide it to investors like you -- or even bundle them together, so that you could spread risk of default over a few different mortgages, instead of just one?

That would be great -- you could earn a return on your saved capital, and Dave Jr. would get what he wants too (even if you disagree with what he should want)!

Ah, but of course, agents like that are just parasites. So instead of reinvesting your saved capital with someone willing to borrow the money, you stuff it in your mattress.

To make society more efficient.

Re: The Financial Sector Is the Greatest Parasite in Human History

#46
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a populist call to arms. You'll be seeing a lot more of it over the next few years, expanding ever more loudly toward the rich, wall street, bankers, and corporations, with calls for much higher tax levels and minimum wage. The Fed's asset bubble-based fake recovery did absolutely nothing for the bottom 50%, but has vastly increased the wealth of the top 10%, the future social consequences of that are obvious.

Indeed. If you take a populist rant like this, and replace keywords like '1%', 'rich', 'banker' with words like 'Jew','Semitic' and 'Zionists' - you start to get an appreciation for how ugly these latest movements really are through the lens of history. Do I mean that some of the public policy choices of the last decade are beyond criticism? No, definitely not. 'Too big to fail' is a terrible phrase because it calcif…

To be fair, the actions of many (not all) of the rich in this country have brought it on themselves. When the middle class is stagnant or declining, and the wealthy keep getting richer and richer, then the populist rhetoric will take root.

And who can blame them exactly? When wages are stagnant, income inequality is rising, most companies have little-to-no loyalty to their employees and discard them at will, and many of the rich and comfortable push relentlessly towards eliminating the safety net, then those at the bottom are going to feel more than a little resentful. They feel ignored and powerless, which is a correct assessment of their position.

While not all the rich are bad, it's very hard in the current climate to have the slightest bit of sympathy for them. They, as a class, have the power to change things and avoid the coming storms, but, they've already shown they're not the least bit interested in addressing the immense financial inequalities and the problems to an ordered society caused by such divisions.

Re: The Financial Sector Is the Greatest Parasite in Human History

#47
The problem isn't the financial industry. Or, rather, the financial industry is only a special-case of the problem. The problem is middle-men. Specifically, it's the fact the Internet has made a certain class of people, whose job it was to take money from people and give it to people who need money (in exchange for a cut) obsolete.

The financial industry is the man-in-the-middle between lenders and borrowers. The recording industry is the man-in-the-middle between listeners and artists. Auto-dealerships are the man-in-the-middle between car companies and car buyers. Realtors are the man-in-the-middle between home buyers and home sellers. In every case, these used to be vital services in a pre-Internet, pre-cheap-communication world. But now, they all look like parasites, simply because we don't need their services any more. And, instead of refocusing their business around providing information and helping the market clear, all of these industries are trying to carve out regulatory havens that would allow them to continue business as usual whilst imposing higher costs on the rest of us. It is this rent-seeking behavior that makes them parasites.

Re: The Financial Sector Is the Greatest Parasite in Human History

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reviewing the history of the US's first six frigates is a very interesting take on a lot of sides of this issue.

Can you elaborate?

The conflict between the desire not to have a Navy and the problems being caused by pirates presented interesting arguments for both sides. The conflict generated the conditions to build the 6 frigates.

http://www.amazon.com/Six-Frigates-Epic-History-Founding/dp/...

Re: The Financial Sector Is the Greatest Parasite in Human History

#49
post #43

“The few who understand the system will either be so interested in its profits or be so dependent upon its favours that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of people, mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical…

Fake, according to http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Conspiracy .

Updated.

Not fake anymore.

Re: The Financial Sector Is the Greatest Parasite in Human History

#50
post #3

Bigger than government? Arguably at least the military and internal-to-government overhead is a direct parasite on everyone else, and its only value is fighting other parasites (other governments). Some parts of government seem to be very useful, but it's a big enough sector that just the parasite parts are probably the biggest parasite.

Government is worse and it enables a lot of the ills of banking, not a popular opinion on largely state-apologist HN though.

I wasn't even making a general anti-government argument, but the much weaker argument against parts of the government which exist only because government, not because of any actual purpose external to government.
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