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The Financial Sector Is the Greatest Parasite in Human History

neweconomicperspectives.org

21–30 of 85 posts

Re: The Financial Sector Is the Greatest Parasite in Human History

#21
post #16

Maybe it's just me, but the maths seems strange. I just quickly glanced at some figures, like "Have they earned it?", and it seemed wrong. The author says the total return for say Barclay was 12.61%. bc -l running in a terminal disagree Taking 100 as the base value to ease our math: 100x1.112x1.0825x0.9452x1.1088=126.156497322240000 That's a 26% something cumulative return in 4 years. What is this 12.61% meant to rep…

>The rule of thumb is that hedge funds charge a 2% per year management fee and keep 20% of all profits,

>All returns shown are net of fees

So, subtract 20% from the 3 positive numbers, and that's about 6% in fees (this may be off by a bit, I'm quickly approximating the math in my head). Subtract another ~8% for 4 years of fees, and that's about 14% combined fees. 26% - 14% = 12%. Seems to be about right.

The author could have made the way he calculated the fees more clear, but his point stands that a huge % of hedge fund profits go to fees.

Re: The Financial Sector Is the Greatest Parasite in Human History

#23
post #6

The military has been worse historically surely? At least the financial sector has some function you'd miss if they didn't exist - banks, insurers etc are useful although I'll give you that about half their activities are parasite like. I'm basing that number on Krugman http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/27/opinion/27krugman.html?_r=...

It really depends. Traditionally, the US navy was to stop pirates from screwing with US exports. IMHO it was a pretty effective policy. we pay taxes, our stuff gets to new markets.

Iraqi oil is apparently doing nice things for XOM, not sure if they payoff will be worth the price. Afghanistan seems like a loser. There's nothing there we can take to pay for the war.

Re: The Financial Sector Is the Greatest Parasite in Human History

#24
post #7

The financial sector provides no services? What? If I want to sell my company, the banks sure as hell provide a service. They provide a valuation, put together a pitch book, shop the company around and close the deal. How is that not a service?

What about credit cards, debit cards, checking, savings, ATM, online banking, mortgages, heloc, etc?

Re: The Financial Sector Is the Greatest Parasite in Human History

#25
post #20
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The military part is negative-sum for the world. A competent engineer designing weapons, even if he makes $150k to spend on food/cars/etc. and support those people, is still depriving humanity of the $100k to near-infinity of positive contribution ("consumer surplus") he could be making, some of which he'd capture as additional expected income, if he worked on something genuinely useful to humanity. The only reason w…

What has DARPA done for me lately? Money seems to be an excellent motivator, but when death is on the line people seem to embrace a little more out of the box thinking. Rent seeking and collusion to avoid innovation seem to be problems with both the money and violence types of power.

"What has DARPA done for me lately?"

How about the internet?

If that's too last-century for you, you can look forward to the benefits of DARPA funding the development of the basic tech and Open Source software that's driving the rapid development of robots right now.

Re: The Financial Sector Is the Greatest Parasite in Human History

#26
post #10
post #3

Bigger than government? Arguably at least the military and internal-to-government overhead is a direct parasite on everyone else, and its only value is fighting other parasites (other governments). Some parts of government seem to be very useful, but it's a big enough sector that just the parasite parts are probably the biggest parasite.

yes. why even bother to argue your point? while a lot of government spending might not benefit you directly, the odds are that someone out there is getting some kind of service from it. Also, a sizable fraction of government money is going to salaries of middle-class workers. They, in turn, are likely to spend that money on things you might consider useful or neat, thereby helping the overall economy. The process mig…

You lost me at the broken-window fallacy. If you want to give people handouts, call them handouts. Don't give them a bunch of bullshit to do and pretend it's constructive.

Re: The Financial Sector Is the Greatest Parasite in Human History

#27
post #24
post #7

The financial sector provides no services? What? If I want to sell my company, the banks sure as hell provide a service. They provide a valuation, put together a pitch book, shop the company around and close the deal. How is that not a service?

What about credit cards, debit cards, checking, savings, ATM, online banking, mortgages, heloc, etc?

"All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"

Re: The Financial Sector Is the Greatest Parasite in Human History

#28
post #7

The financial sector provides no services? What? If I want to sell my company, the banks sure as hell provide a service. They provide a valuation, put together a pitch book, shop the company around and close the deal. How is that not a service?

They provide a valuation, put together a pitch book, shop the company around and close the deal.

I'd guess the author would argue that those services are not, strictly speaking, financial.

You could easily enough split up a deal like that between a pure financial institution and some sort of consultant/agency for corporate A&M, and it wouldn't really look or work any differently.

The consultant would provide you with an actual service and the bank would just move assets around. That's just twiddling some bits, these days; the bank's part of the job could be done by computer. The bank could just be a computer, really. As the author puts it, "it creates nothing."

I don't know if I agree with that point of view or not, but I think I understand where he's coming from.

Re: The Financial Sector Is the Greatest Parasite in Human History

#29
post #7

The financial sector provides no services? What? If I want to sell my company, the banks sure as hell provide a service. They provide a valuation, put together a pitch book, shop the company around and close the deal. How is that not a service?

You can provide a service that is a net loss overall, but still a benefit to a few. It's the tragedy of the commons.

Let's make it simple and say there are two villages. Some people in village A decide to start raiding crops from village B, because they find they can steal crops more easily than growing them, so stealing is a net benefit to village A.

Village B, noticing the theft, decides to start paying some farmers to defend the village instead of farming. This is a positive outcome for Village B, because the cost of their new security force is less than the cost of the stolen crops.

Ostensibly there are two positive outcomes; both sides now maintain a security service and find themselves at an equilibrium.

But if you look at Village A and B together, you'd see that they'd both be better off if there were no raiders and no defenders and could concentrate on farming. The overall drain on society gets worse as the situation escalates.

Imagine that Village A decides to create more thieves to overwhelm B's security, and that turns out to be profitable.

Now imagine that this exact thing is taking place, at every scale, millions of times a day.

Let's say I'm competing with Dave to buy a house we both want. The only thing holding that price down is our collective willingness not to borrow huge sums of money to outbid each other. Let's say the bank starts to offer a 60 year mortgage, so that Dave can outbid me by shackling himself to a loan he probably won't pay off in his lifetime. Dave is a moron, so he does that. It's a free country.

Dave, in this circumstance, is acting like Village B, where he shoots himself and the rest of society in the foot by dedicating most of his future income to paying a bank in order to get a short term gain and win a house bid with me.

But the real winner in the scenario is the bank, not Dave.

Edit to add: I believe the article was talking about "service" in terms of the overall gain to society, not the individual services that a bank typically provides, many of which are completely legitimate like helping you sell a business.

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