Awful intimidation, my sympathies if true. But why is sexism even in the headline? As far as I can tell, 1. a coworker made advances outside work and acted weird/hostile when rejected, and 2. impromptu sexy hula hoop revue. Incidents 1. and 2. did warrant correction. If HR/founder wouldn't help when asked then I guess you could win a hostile work env. claim w/ a sexist flavor.
Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
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Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#982Based on this article I see a few things, and some alarming ones that make me question the source. Also, hopefully to prevent me from sounding like too much of an ass, I'll use the following as the definition of sexism: "Sexism or gender discrimination is prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender." - The wife situation: Awkward/horrible. Either the wife is crazy with jealousy issues or we're missi…
You are arguing that what happened to her is not sexism, and you really miss the bigger picture, which is that it's a hostile work environment, which is equally bad.
I'm really disappointed at the amount of victim blaming going on. Just so you are aware, what happened to her is more than just "treated poorly". Workers should be (and are) legally protected from that.
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#983Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be honest, I am living in a very different culture now from the US culture where social gender roles are more significant but also somewhat flexible. I do expect the post to bother Americans because it goes against what I call the myth of interchangeability, the idea that gender equality necessarily reduces to the idea that the sexes are interchangeable. I don't believe this and I think that equality has to be mor…
> the myth of interchangeability, the idea that gender equality necessarily reduces to the idea that the sexes are interchangeable. This always drove me insane - people seem to confuse value equality/congruence and strict identicality. The latter seems to either try to create a female default and punish men for not living up to it, or create some weird fuzzy default that nobody really fits comfortably. What we want i…
> This always drove me insane - people seem to confuse value equality/congruence and strict identicality. The latter seems to either try to create a female default and punish men for not living up to it, or create some weird fuzzy default that nobody really fits comfortably.
It creates a female default and punishes men for not living up to it in some areas (like public school in the US), but it creates a male default and punishes women for not living up to it in other areas (academic careers in life sciences, the job market, etc).
> The answer isn't to change the (currently relatively male-normative) norm, it's to defenstrate the idea that having a norm in the first place is a remotely good idea.
Agreed.
> What we want is to say that women are as valuable as men, and then let individuals figure out who they want to be.
Agreed here too. The question then is, how we address this.
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#984Sorry but I simply do not trust her. Anybody that "fights for the bad guy" for two whole years (she said "I regret defending GitHub's culture to feminists for the last two years. I'm sorry to everyone I've hurt in doing so.") can not be trusted now that she has just jumped ship.
Lastly all this talk about her being a brilliant developer needs to stop. Take a look at her recent activity in her Github account: https://github.com/nrrrdcore?tab=activity It is mostly just text changes!
Oh and lastly anybody that thinks I'm a sexist, please note that one of the female developers I used to work with was by far the best developer the company had. She, due to her outstanding work, is now their CTO. Hard work and good skill always rewards people regardless about your sex. It is just a pity Julie wanted to play the old "sexist card".
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#985Earlier quoted context omitted.
It makes all the sense when you consider the possibility that she might be a person that specifically collects even the smallest pieces of evidence to support her theories of sexism and bigotry in the workplace.
Sexism in tech companies is a fact whether this "smallest piece of evidence" supports it or not.
Of course. It is also a fact in every single community of a certain size because there's always a number of that have sexist behavior.
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#986Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I mean, someone reverting your code because of a personal vendetta? I laughed out loud when I read this and several other specific details in the story. It sounded very familiar. I have several friends and many acquaintances who work at Valve. One very senior engineer initially worked on Source 2 about three years ago but had to quickly switch projects because another, more tenured engineer was expressing his disag…
"I'm waiting for a hip rebranding of the term 'management'..." Easy, just start calling managers "people hackers" and launch a people hacking tips blog next week.
In corporate environments I use the term 'Outlook resource'
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#987There seems to be several problems. Not entirely sexism. 1. Founder's wife asked Horvath out and gave her a lecture about who is the boss. Probably out of jealousy. 2. Founder's wife physically inanimate Horvath, making her unwelcome and scared. 3. Founder did not stop the wife and protect his wife. 4. Horvath was approached by a male co-worker and according to her her rejection had caused tension between her and tha…
>Regarding the strip-club comment, I don't know the best way to avoid it. I, as a male, try to avoid staring at another female because I fear someone like Horvath accuses me of sexism. Maybe the guy was just bored or thought that female worker was beautiful. Staring at someone shouldn't be counted as sexism. It's hard. Would a female staring at a beautiful male count as sexism? The problem isn't sexism so much as obj…
> historically, you know, men are allowed to stare at women and women aren't really allowed to
Really? I've played football with a few women from my office playing but most on the sidelines staring.
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#988Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Nebulous semi-employee with unspecified responsibilities related to a founder? This is the point that stands out for me. That the wife is not an employee of Github but claims to be able to access private company chat records, and also is able to "work" from within the office and interact with the staff. Even with allowances that company property remains company property and private chat rooms are in fact non-privat…
> The wife, and the husband (founder), have displayed an incredible lack of professionalism here. That assumes that the story, as told in the accusation, is completely accurate. One could envision a scenario where the founder felt his wife may be able to relate to the situation better and could actually assist the accuser. However, in spite of best intentions, its possible that the wife's actions were misinterpreted…
No it does not. Management 101 is that you fire all 3 ASAP.
Also looking at her github account, she is a designer, not a developer A bit different education.
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#989Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is it relevant to the story?
It's a gossipy story involving sexual attraction. How isn't it relevant? If you feel it's none of your business, then the whole story is none of your business either.
Would the actions of the founder's partner have been excusable/understandable either way? I don't think so, and if not then it isn't relevant (IMO).
Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit
#990Earlier quoted context omitted.
Try getting sternly lectured for 10 minutes because because you held the door open for a stranger to be polite. That's when you know shit gotten real. For the record, I routinely hold open doors for people that I know are behind me and are leaving/entering a building. It surprised me to know end to get yelled at for it.
I had that happen, so I laughed. Then she got really angry... doesn't stop me, though. I hold the door for everyone, because it's polite , not because someone is whatever gender.
Woah! Glad to know I'm not alone. I do this all the time. Never had a bad experience yet though.