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Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

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Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#941

Post by Fuxy »

Now that's a lot of drama but it has nothing to do with sexism or any abuse towards women in technology.

For one thing as far as i can tell we're dealing with the wife of a founder that has delusions of grandeur and a founder who is easily manipulated.

The very few allegations of sexism like some employee asking her out and the passive aggressively harassing her will happen in any environment not just in technology it's just the guy not being a man and facing the rejection. All you can say to him is grow up.

I also don't see anything wrong in the guys looking a the girls playing with the hula hoops If the girls minded the wouldn't have done it what right does she have to judge them.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#942

Post by bayesianhorse »

The first reaction to sexism and racism in well-educated male circles seems to be "Well, there has to be SOME rational and objective reason for these opinions, so stop complaining!"

The story certainly contains some element of "female politics" (which is neither good nor bad, just different).

My theory is that these problems come from a lack of empathy, and that the use of technical skills does not improve the empathy skill. In order to effortlessly switch between empathy and technical thinking, some effort is required. For example meditation has been shown to increase empathy and improve social behavior in school classes and executives...

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#943

Post by Fuxy »

graycat wrote: post #877

Looks to me that the wife of the founder was doing something that is common, 'protecting her man'. She was getting a bit carried away and using poor judgment and was apparently quite naive about business, but such things are not rare. So, it was two women fighting, very emotionally, and that's not rare either. The founder needed to keep his wife 'at home' or some such, but these days women resent such 'controls'. So,…

It may hurt githubs reputation a bit.

I'm quite certain some women in technology will avoid them now but the reality is this has nothing to do with sexism.

No guy would ever bother to create this much drama. This is clearly a girl problem.

I got one thing to say to that github founder man up and keep your wife in check. What is she doing there to begin with anyway?

Doesn't she have anything better to do then attempt to look important while harassing your employees?

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#944

Post by Intermernet »

jrockway wrote: post #675
wahsd wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you live in the UK, which is still part of Europe, where people are still people that have rights. Your only right in the USA is the right to leave.

you live in the UK where people are still people that have rights The right to be sued for libel whenever they write something that someone else doesn't like?

And the right to win in court: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCA_v._Singh

Unfortunately, this doesn't invalidate the fact that you're correct in a way. If Simon Singh hadn't been able to afford the time and money to defend this case, the libel suit would probably have stood.

Still, it's a step in the right direction, and an important legal precedent.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#945

Post by kalleboo »

espadrine wrote: post #842
nailer wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does that entire paragraph not just objectify the wife and establish differences between the sexes based on anecdotal experience? Re objectification: couples get advice from their life partners. That doesn't mean this is their life partners only goal. Re: 'establish differences between the sexes based on anecdotal experience' is there anything ethically wrong with this? Would you prefer a citation be added, eg, 'ne…

> Re objectification: couples get advice from their life partners. That doesn't mean this is their life partners only goal. Women objectification is about treating a woman like an object, a belonging, a resource. As it turns out, the person writing the parent comment defined a founder's wife as "one of your most valuable business resources ". That person should have said, "some of your most valuable business insights…

> As it turns out, the person writing the parent comment defined a founder's wife as "one of your most valuable business resources"

To be fair, in a world (the world of business) where employees are referred to as "human resources", everyone involved has already been objectified.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#946

Post by pron »

theorique wrote: post #940
pron wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "admittedly reasonably attractive" Admittedly, you seem reasonably intelligent, but this is out of place.

Thanks, it took two hours to do my brain makeup today. I don't think it's completely irrelevant - if female competitiveness is a factor (wife jealous of star employee at husband's company) - a big 'if' since we don't know the whole story - it is much more likely to be a factor in the case of an attractive woman versus one who is not.

Uh, I was taking issue with "admittedly reasonably", not with "attractive", but even that is out of place, because, assuming you don't know Horvath personally, you're implying that knowing how a woman looks is enough to determine if she's attractive or not.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#947

Post by rmc »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #625
buro9 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nebulous semi-employee with unspecified responsibilities related to a founder? This is the point that stands out for me. That the wife is not an employee of Github but claims to be able to access private company chat records, and also is able to "work" from within the office and interact with the staff. Even with allowances that company property remains company property and private chat rooms are in fact non-privat…

> the question should be asked very loud and clear... "Who can access private company data, why, and for what reason?" I am against using private github repos simply because: it's safe to assume that the NSA can access them via hardware backdoors on github's premises (as per many US ISPs), or by compromising crypto keys that github holds (as per lavabit). It's also safe to assume that github will be legally compelled…

Eh, any US based hosting is potentially vulnerble to that. Even non-US based hosting is vulnerble to you being hacked by the NSA. But a company allowing non-employees access is a very different situtation.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#948

Post by rmc »

cwilson wrote: post #512
buro9 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nebulous semi-employee with unspecified responsibilities related to a founder? This is the point that stands out for me. That the wife is not an employee of Github but claims to be able to access private company chat records, and also is able to "work" from within the office and interact with the staff. Even with allowances that company property remains company property and private chat rooms are in fact non-privat…

It's as easy as the wife grabbing the husbands laptop and scanning the Hipchat logs.

The article claims GitHub said that the wife would "work from home". Why would a company say that a non-employee would "work from home". Why would a company allow a non-employee to get into the office that much?

This sounds a lot worse and blatant than just shoulder surfing at home.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#949

Post by pron »

kyberias wrote: post #570
Udo wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This info makes the last item of the article even more bizarre. I'm starting to think this was reported inaccurately by TC. Maybe she was really referring to a separate incident that happened at the hula dancing event, an incident we don't have any information about. Otherwise, this makes no sense.

It makes all the sense when you consider the possibility that she might be a person that specifically collects even the smallest pieces of evidence to support her theories of sexism and bigotry in the workplace.

Sexism in tech companies is a fact whether this "smallest piece of evidence" supports it or not.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#950

Post by agapos »

icco wrote: post #716
keithpeter wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Who can access private company data, why, and for what reason?" This seems to me to be the major takeaway for organisations outside github from this sorry affair. I'm sort of surprised you are the only person to raise this so far. In the UK, the employee who resigned could have a successful day in an employment tribunal. And one aspect of the hearing would be privacy and the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act pr…

I am not a Lawyer, but I'm pretty sure in the US, she could sue as well.

One could sue for pretty much anything in the US.
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