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Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

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Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#361

Post by keithpeter »

buro9 wrote: post #293
sgentle wrote: post #235

Ouch. What a terrible situation. I'm holding out for the other side of the story, but unless you're willing to assume the entire thing is invented this is a major fuckup for GitHub. I think this is a classic problem with companies making the transition from small startup to regular business. Break down the barriers! Flat management! Kill bureaucracy and embrace no-politics DIY organisation! The article reads like an…

> Nebulous semi-employee with unspecified responsibilities related to a founder? This is the point that stands out for me. That the wife is not an employee of Github but claims to be able to access private company chat records, and also is able to "work" from within the office and interact with the staff. Even with allowances that company property remains company property and private chat rooms are in fact non-privat…

"Who can access private company data, why, and for what reason?"

This seems to me to be the major takeaway for organisations outside github from this sorry affair. I'm sort of surprised you are the only person to raise this so far.

In the UK, the employee who resigned could have a successful day in an employment tribunal. And one aspect of the hearing would be privacy and the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act provisions.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#362

Post by smoe »

XorNot wrote: post #256
iwasphone wrote: post #19

> Horvath then told her partner, also a GitHub employee... Protip: don't dip your pen in the company ink.

Everyone says this because it sounds obviously simple. It's complete BS though. You spend 2/3'rds of your working life at work . The people you socialize, interact with and share common challenges are at work. Unless you meet your partner in college, or high school or happen to have enough time in a shared extra-curricular (which a lot of us don't ) then where exactly are you going to meet people at all. Moreover, no…

Totally agree. Plus, the article didn't mention (and it shouldn't), whether she met her partner at Github or not. They may as well be a couple since college.

I'd prefer not to be in a relationship with a co-worker, since I fear, it would be more difficult to keep the job out of our personal life than visa versa. But, if I'm really attracted to a single co-worker more than physically, I'd just ask her out for a coffee or drink and happily deal with whatever positive or negative things might happen.

Not doing anything, just because you think its unprofessional or inappropriate is way more unreasonable in my opinion.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#365

Post by jd0 »

clarkm wrote: post #356
jd0 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I, as a male, try not to stare at anybody because I'm not a fucking asshole.

So I take it you abstain from attending any presentations, talks, or conferences? Or do you just turn your chair around and face the back?

Correct, I apply the no staring rule without discretion and take it to an extreme in all areas of my life. I'm even known to tape my eyes closed.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#366

Post by greenrd »

csense wrote: post #71
johnny22 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the dude going back and deleting her code after the rejection seems pretty hostile to me.

Good point. What probably needed to happen was whoever was in charge of that project should have recognized these two employees now didn't get along, and reassigned one or both of them away from the project.

That's actually impossible at GitHub (as far as I understand their working practices) because they are not a traditional company. They use Open Allocation, which means that employees decide which projects to work on, and specifically, project leads cannot veto that.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#367

Post by shiven »

rtpg wrote: post #302
chanux wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, as a male, try to avoid staring at another female because I fear someone like Horvath accuses me of sexism. This is, sadly, the best thing to do because you don't know who is going to take offense. PS: To avoid looking one-sided and narrow (which I believe I'm not) I really feel bad about this whole situation and the lady who had to go through that. Personally liked a github as a company.

>What I did have a problem with is the line of men sitting on one bench facing the hoopers and gawking at them Gawking and looking are not the same thing. There are also times where even the most socially incompetent will realise that some girls doing things that might be nice to look at is not an invitation to check them out doing it (this is, of course, excepting people who go the reductionist route of thinking tha…

... doing things that might be nice to look at is not an invitation to check them out doing it

Then why do any of those things in a non-private setting with reasonable expectation of gawkers being present?

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#368

Post by tomp »

jd0 wrote: post #291
Cederfjard wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The hula hooping moment was important because it visibly demonstrated her male coworkers lack of respect for women as people. They were unabashedly staring at their female coworkers as "eyecandy" in that moment and even defended their doing so. I have never understood how this argument works, obviously I'm missing something. Because I momentarily focus my attention on someone for their physical attributes, I automa…

It's possible to recognize the attractive features of someone while still being conscious of their humanity. Obviously there are degrees of attention you can give someone based on their looks that goes from socially acceptable to socially unacceptable. I'm a man so I can't speak for women directly, but what I've gathered from the experiences of others is that women are interacted with on an attraction basis exponenti…

> to me it makes sense why this scene would be triggering for her

It makes sense to me as well, but if I were her boss, I would ask her to take a more professional and less emotional perspective of the workplace (of course, after (hopefully having her problems presented in a clear manner and) solving the other issues that were causing her to feel unwelcome).

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#369

Post by froo »

kansface wrote: post #248
enneff wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try to avoid staring at people because my parents taught me that it's rude to stare. That's not to say that I don't admire people that I find attractive. I just do it subtly to avoid making people feel uncomfortable.

Somehow, furtive glances doesn't come across much better.

Try getting sternly lectured for 10 minutes because because you held the door open for a stranger to be polite. That's when you know shit gotten real.

For the record, I routinely hold open doors for people that I know are behind me and are leaving/entering a building. It surprised me to know end to get yelled at for it.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#370

Post by troels »

keithpeter wrote: post #355
rasur wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to favour the term "Savage Infants" personally, but "Tall Children" is a winner too, I shall remember that one.

"Try to act your age, not your shoe size" sometimes works when trying to restore order with a group of 25 rowdy teenagers (I'm a teacher). Recently, however, the smart ones have been shouting back "British or European?" Thanks for tall children...

European could either be French or Italian standard. Not sure if it's useful for a comeback though, since they are both in circa the same range.
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