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Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

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Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#511

There seems to be several problems. Not entirely sexism. 1. Founder's wife asked Horvath out and gave her a lecture about who is the boss. Probably out of jealousy. 2. Founder's wife physically inanimate Horvath, making her unwelcome and scared. 3. Founder did not stop the wife and protect his wife. 4. Horvath was approached by a male co-worker and according to her her rejection had caused tension between her and tha…

This again. Every time someone speaks out about sexism there seems to be a need for some to defend the predators (directly or by declaring that "this is not sexism"). Why do you feel obligated to do so?

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#512
post #293

Ouch. What a terrible situation. I'm holding out for the other side of the story, but unless you're willing to assume the entire thing is invented this is a major fuckup for GitHub. I think this is a classic problem with companies making the transition from small startup to regular business. Break down the barriers! Flat management! Kill bureaucracy and embrace no-politics DIY organisation! The article reads like an…

> Nebulous semi-employee with unspecified responsibilities related to a founder? This is the point that stands out for me. That the wife is not an employee of Github but claims to be able to access private company chat records, and also is able to "work" from within the office and interact with the staff. Even with allowances that company property remains company property and private chat rooms are in fact non-privat…

It's as easy as the wife grabbing the husbands laptop and scanning the Hipchat logs.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#513
post #511

There seems to be several problems. Not entirely sexism. 1. Founder's wife asked Horvath out and gave her a lecture about who is the boss. Probably out of jealousy. 2. Founder's wife physically inanimate Horvath, making her unwelcome and scared. 3. Founder did not stop the wife and protect his wife. 4. Horvath was approached by a male co-worker and according to her her rejection had caused tension between her and tha…

This again. Every time someone speaks out about sexism there seems to be a need for some to defend the predators (directly or by declaring that "this is not sexism"). Why do you feel obligated to do so?

Its a double standard. Its allowed to assume the worst motives in male behavior, always gets a pass. Its forbidden to call out despicable behavior in females.

And now, it seems its forbidden to explain male behavior as anything but evil. Because they are 'predators' by default.

Resorting to these "PC rules of engagement" ends rational discussion. Reducing this to the choir preaching to one another.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#514
post #48
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Er, it's not like she's anonymously accusing them. They can confront her any time they want.

Carried forward, in a court-like environment, or throwing salvos over PR mediums? I take it as a bad smell someone goes the PR route over a lawyer (perhaps a confidential legal threat?) to discuss things privately and settle thing amicably.

After reading the article I assumed that she didn't go to a lawyer because she believed there was nothing there that would merit a lawsuit. The fact that she didn't mention what her initial grievance was, leads me to believe it wasn't such a big deal as to rise to the level of a lawsuit.

Or possibly she just believes that going public like this is the best way to bring about change.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#515
post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try getting sternly lectured for 10 minutes because because you held the door open for a stranger to be polite. That's when you know shit gotten real. For the record, I routinely hold open doors for people that I know are behind me and are leaving/entering a building. It surprised me to know end to get yelled at for it.

I'm Canadian too! And been lectured to about it.

Where did this happen? I'm curious.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the article, she did this because she was being anonymously, publicly slandered on Secret.

how did she find out?

Does it matter? Secret is quite popular in the Valley and among women in particular (right?) so it's not implausible that she had an account herself.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean, someone reverting your code because of a personal vendetta? I laughed out loud when I read this and several other specific details in the story. It sounded very familiar. I have several friends and many acquaintances who work at Valve. One very senior engineer initially worked on Source 2 about three years ago but had to quickly switch projects because another, more tenured engineer was expressing his disag…

> The founder's wife story also reminds me of episodes I've heard involving the wife cabal. It's nothing as sinister as the GitHub story, but I see a lot of the same structural issues reflected in these telling anecdotes. If you are male and a founder, one of your most valuable business resources is your wife. People will call me sexist for saying this, I expect, but women think socially with a level of complexity th…

This post really bothers me somehow.

Edit: Figured out why.

I don't understand why saying, "people will call me sexist for this" immediately validates your statement as "not intended to be sexist".

>"If you are male and a founder, one of your most valuable business resources is your wife. People will call me sexist for saying this, I expect, but women think socially with a level of complexity that I think most men never approach."

It's pretty clearly a sexist statement is it not? Am I confused about what makes a statement sexist?

Does that entire paragraph not just objectify the wife and establish differences between the sexes based on anecdotal experience?

>"If you are a man, chances are your wife does more to build the business than you ever do."

And this one doesn't even really make sense(as in where are you pulling this random ass statement from), not to mention stating it as, "If you are a founder, chances are your spouse does more to build the business than you ever do." feels literally 10x better to me(even if it still sounds false). Even the punctuation in that sentence makes the word man stand out when it could have easily been written without said punctuation.(well without the comma at least :-p ).

I realize this is super overly sensitive by the way. I normally wouldn't comment, I had already posted "this post really bothers me somehow" though, and felt an explanation was warranted. Definitely curious if anyone else felt the same.

Lastly, I'm a 21 year old white male; the only adversity I've ever faced is being called a ginger, so don't think this is coming from a longstanding feminist, just a human.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#518
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it seems the company is run by individuals who never mentally developed out of high school Github is developed in Ruby. Enough said.

There does seem to be some truth to what you're suggesting. For whatever reason, there's a propensity for this sort of drama to occur within organizations and at events where Ruby and Ruby on Rails, or users of such technologies, are involved in some way. Off hand, I can think of that controversial presentation at GoGaRuCo a few years ago, the controversy about the diversity of the presenters at the BritRuby conferen…

On the other hand, the ruby community just seems to have more women in it than a lot of other programming communities. Many technical communities simply don't have as many opportunities for these sorts of situations to arise.

Other communities may also have less opportunities for truly great pro-women-in-coding projects to emerge. Last year the 3 people who started Rails Girls were honoured with Ruby Hero awards at Railsconf. There was near-universal support and genuinely excitement that something like this emerged within the community and had made such a strong impact in bringing women into the field.

http://railsgirls.com/

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#519
post #418

I know this is beside the point, but I'm just curious. What did Horvath do at GitHub? Design UI or write code?

Both. Her career has taken her from cleaning, via marketing, to design and then front-end development. Quite a trajectory. (Not all at GitHub.)

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#520
post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You a liar/thief/vagabond/ruffian/scoundrel/bully/shithead/asshole/arsonist/murderer/sexist/racist. If even 10% of that is true, it is a serious allegation against you. You are not to be trusted.

Unlike your comment, this story is so long and has so many points that could be verified later through eyewitness accounts and otherwise that it's hard to imagine all of it being false (I'm inclined to believe this story).

Oh_sigh's comment is long and makes a number of points, all of which could be verified. I'm inclined to believe it.
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