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Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

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Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#461

Post by facepalm »

jd0 wrote: post #247
yeukhon wrote: post #183

There seems to be several problems. Not entirely sexism. 1. Founder's wife asked Horvath out and gave her a lecture about who is the boss. Probably out of jealousy. 2. Founder's wife physically inanimate Horvath, making her unwelcome and scared. 3. Founder did not stop the wife and protect his wife. 4. Horvath was approached by a male co-worker and according to her her rejection had caused tension between her and tha…

To clarify for many of you, you don't need someone shouting "I HATE WOMEN" for sexism to be occurring. The sexism in this scenario is subtle and persistent, something that likely tainted all of the workplace interactions at github, allowing a female employee's problems at work to be continually ignored. This eventually built up to the issue most people are focusing on, a founders spouse being allowed to harass an emp…

It's not disrespecting people to consider them attractive.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#464

Post by waylandsmithers »

Wow, what an absolute train wreck. I've only worked for medium and large companies with a borderline fantasy of hacking on a startup at some point. Seeing the dark side of what happens when you rip out the bigco controls that people tend to dislike really makes me think twice though. Sounds like you just wind up with an out of control frat house.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#465

Post by rsynnott »

derefr wrote: post #75
bitops wrote: post #53

As usual, another HN thread that perfectly exemplifies victim blaming and a collective burying of heads in the sand. There's a few people on here who seem to get it, but most don't. I'm sick of it. Goodbye, Hacker News.

Hackers, in my experience, have more shared experience in being naive enough socially to allow themselves to be baited into making statements which are later used against them, than in actually saying things (or even associating with others who would say things) which are intentionally malicious. We all understand fixing someone's computer and then being blamed for any problems it has from then on; or for making a so…

> This can look like "victim-blaming", but it's really more-than-anything a yearning for people to keep their standards of evidence high, and to avoid jumping to conclusions.

That really depends, now, doesn't it, on what the subject is? :) HackerNews seems, in general, to have a very low standard of evidence for things like "the NSA is doing something evil", and tends to be quite credulous on such things. It seems to have a very, very, _very_ high standard of evidence for "bigotry exists" though.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#466

Post by michaelochurch »

michaelt wrote: post #453
michaelochurch wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of what you say is good, but... You've already cleared it with political allies they have at the company who could stop it. If I found out that a manager was undermining me in this way, I'd strike back and it probably wouldn't be good for me or him. Trying to turn my friends against me? That's war. I'd fuck him up and I'd keep fucking him up after the end of that job. Letting an employee go isn't personal. Reach…

If I found out that a manager was undermining me in this way, I'd strike back and it probably wouldn't be good for me or him. Allow me to clarify: Before you make a threat (such as to fire someone) you need to make sure the threat is credible. This is for exactly the reason you say: If you openly try but fail to get rid of someone, they may take it personally and try to "fuck up your shit". If there's someone who can…

My point is that you should never threaten to fire someone. Once the decision is made, you should do it.

Yes, this means you'll have to pay a severance because there is no paper trail. A typical severance (enough to cover the expected length of a job search) is a small cost, considering what you're getting in the deal: non-litigation, non-disparagement, minimal drama, and the employee moved out the same day.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#467

Post by Deestan »

csense wrote: post #212
iancarroll wrote: post #6

Until there's a second side to this my GitHub use is not going to continue. Sad to see this happen, but it's not hard to change origins on my repos to BitBucket or Gitlab. edit: and again, it's two commands to push my repo back. but i have no interest in being with github at this time

See my comments earlier in this thread. It seems unfair to blame Github as a company for the actions of a couple individuals.

It makes sense to question the company's structure/policy/organization if it allows destructive behavior to run wild.

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#468

Post by UK-AL »

chii wrote: post #359
unfunco wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spotting a fuckwit during a best-behaviour interview is difficult.

that's why you have a probation period, normally 3 months, but longer if necessary.

Useless in the this case, because the fuckwits sounded like the founders/founders wife/

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#469

Post by wyclif »

mynameisasdf wrote: post #447

I can't believe that no one has spotted that she is exactly the same annoying feminist that forced the company to get rid of a rug because it used the term "meritocracy". http://readwrite.com/2014/01/24/github-meritocracy-rug#awesm... Tbfh, she sounds like Adria Richards v2.0

I found that episode terribly confused, and I never understood the rationale behind it. Isn't "meritocracy" a value and environment that feminists have told us over and over again is a positive development for women? Don't women want to work in a "meritocracy" precisely because their work will be valued and appreciated not because they are women but because excellence at work knows no sex, colour, or creed?

Re: Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism and Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit

#470

Post by rsynnott »

sudhirj wrote: post #26
iancarroll wrote: post #6

Until there's a second side to this my GitHub use is not going to continue. Sad to see this happen, but it's not hard to change origins on my repos to BitBucket or Gitlab. edit: and again, it's two commands to push my repo back. but i have no interest in being with github at this time

But why? Despite it's dubious origins, Github remains an excellent / superior product. One may not agree with the way they do things (and even that seems to be some, not everyone in the organization), but is that really a reason to stop using the product? https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/genetic

I mean, if you accept that the article is true, the company described is horribly dysfunctional, and will likely have difficulty going forward as it grows. You could call it an early warning (assuming you accept the truth of the allegations).
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