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Helsinki’s personalized bus service is like Uber for public transit

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Re: Helsinki’s personalized bus service is like Uber for public transit

#31

Post by Fishkins »

mikeash wrote: post #26
jasondemeuse wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>do what really works for most people -- buses Do buses really work better for most people? I live in Chicago and it seems like most people I know (including me) ride the trains unless it can be avoided.

It seems to be universal. I've seen it in places from SF to DC to small-town France to Beijing: the bus a second choice that you only take when the train doesn't go where you need it to go. I'm still trying to figure out why , though. Despite sharing that opinion myself, I still can't quite figure out what the concrete reasons are. It seems to come down to: subway routes are much easier to figure out, stops are much…

I'd say the biggest reason is they aren't subject to traffic or (usually) weather, which makes them much faster and more consistent in urban areas. All the other factors are just little perks IMO. Although I personally like that I can read on a train without getting motion sickness, but not on a bus.

Re: Helsinki’s personalized bus service is like Uber for public transit

#32

Post by galago »

danielweber wrote: post #14

I'd love this. If American public transportation fans would stop fantasizing about trains and instead do what really works for most people -- buses -- then we could have things a lot better. I've been waiting for years for a service that dispatches a nice bus to ride in on my way to work without me having to walk/drive to a bus stop and hope the schedule is right. I'd accept a modest increase in the commute time if I…

The reason light rail makes sense, at least in Portland, Oregon is that its cheaper per ride to operate. Personally, I would rather ride MAX than a bus. http://trimet.org/about/dashboard.htm#efficiency

Re: Helsinki’s personalized bus service is like Uber for public transit

#33

Post by jrochkind1 »

This was actually proposed by by Christopher Alexander in _A Pattern Language_ originally published in 1977. He cites an MIT study from which he may have gotten the idea.

http://books.google.com/books?id=hwAHmktpk5IC&&pg=PA110

I'm actually surprised it hasn't been done before now, we've had the technology for a while. (It's not clear from the brief write-up if this one is a private company or municipal service).

The entry from A Pattern Language has stuck with me as a good idea (and because it was rather atypical for the other patterns Alexander included, this is the only one i recall that's so overtly related to IT). Alexander's version predates cell/smartphones phones as well as the powerful computers of the 21st century;. it assumes you still need some fixed 'stops' with phones next to them for people to call for dispatch. But the basic idea of routing small busses based on demand and shared rides, using computer software to make it feasible, is there.

Re: Helsinki’s personalized bus service is like Uber for public transit

#35

Post by soperj »

untog wrote: post #16
danielweber wrote: post #14

I'd love this. If American public transportation fans would stop fantasizing about trains and instead do what really works for most people -- buses -- then we could have things a lot better. I've been waiting for years for a service that dispatches a nice bus to ride in on my way to work without me having to walk/drive to a bus stop and hope the schedule is right. I'd accept a modest increase in the commute time if I…

If American public transportation fans would stop fantasizing about trains and instead do what really works for most people -- buses Trains really work for large numbers of people. A single NYC subway train can carry something like 2,400 people. A bus can carry something like 1/10 of that at best. Once you factor in the subway and local train services to New Jersey, CT, Long Island and Upstate New York you really, re…

Helsinki has a subway though. This is on top of that.

Re: Helsinki’s personalized bus service is like Uber for public transit

#36

Post by ajiang »

I love this and have been in love with a similar idea for a while. Kickstarter-style charter buses - only when enough people agree that they need a ride from Area A to Area B will the bus be chartered from a company. You can have spontaneous bus routes, that get cheaper as more people join the route. Over time, when patterns start revealing themselves, you can build regular shuttle routes and put a big dent in the public transit problem in the Bay Area.

Re: Helsinki’s personalized bus service is like Uber for public transit

#37

Post by opium_tea »

rajat wrote: post #15

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/10/the-ille... But those are not hip tech entrepreneurs...

I've witnessed exactly that kind of informal public transport system in cities in Africa. Interesting that it's taken hold in New York.

Doubtless it occurs in numerous other cities, though i'd always assumed it was a developing countries phenomenon (cue joke about Queens).

Re: Helsinki’s personalized bus service is like Uber for public transit

#38

Post by willyt »

untog wrote: post #16
danielweber wrote: post #14

I'd love this. If American public transportation fans would stop fantasizing about trains and instead do what really works for most people -- buses -- then we could have things a lot better. I've been waiting for years for a service that dispatches a nice bus to ride in on my way to work without me having to walk/drive to a bus stop and hope the schedule is right. I'd accept a modest increase in the commute time if I…

If American public transportation fans would stop fantasizing about trains and instead do what really works for most people -- buses Trains really work for large numbers of people. A single NYC subway train can carry something like 2,400 people. A bus can carry something like 1/10 of that at best. Once you factor in the subway and local train services to New Jersey, CT, Long Island and Upstate New York you really, re…

The trouble is, trains require a certain density to be economic and to run a frequent enough service to be convenient. The ideal city density for an efficient metro service is roughly equivalent to streets of 4 or 5 storey apartment blocks. If you've ever been to Barcelona then you'll have an idea of the ideal density. Very few urbanised areas of the US meet this requirement and most of the areas that do fit the bill date back to before the 1920's and already have mass transit. Buses can operate in cities of lower density, but still require a certain critical mass. I don't have the figures to hand but there has to be a certain number of households within 5 minutes walk of a bus stop to make it viable and many suburbs aren't dense enough for this. See the book 'Cities for a small planet'. Also the Reith lectures on this topic: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00gxns8
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