Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours • Hacker News Board

Re: Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

#51

Post by mootothemax » Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 7:40 AM UTC

fosk wrote: post #23

nostrademons wrote: post #7

Interesting hypothesis that would square with this: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2014/03/a-hypoth...

This is an interesting article. One of the comments also gives another plausible solution. Pasting it here for convenience: "There are a number of troubles with that theory Charles, one of which is that the plane should have followed its intended course and stayed on radar by passive reflection, but it is certainly also one of my favourite theories right now. The lack of debris near where it disappeared from the rada…

If the cargo was the interesting bit, killing off all the passengers by dropping pressure and oxygen is trivial.

When was the last time a criminal killed ~240 people in order to steal some loot?

The solution proposed would, at best, be extraordinary; flippantly adding mass murder makes it absurd.

Re: Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

#52

Post by ekianjo » Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 7:42 AM UTC

jonah wrote: post #36

ekianjo wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * On February 22nd, aircraft 9M-MRO underwent maintenance. During this, or during a previous maintenance cycle, an empty oxygen bottle was installed by mistake for a full one, or a valve was jammed, or some other undetected fault rendered the flight deck crew's emergency oxygen supply inoperable. That sounds extremely unlikely. Standard procedures for equipment checks in plane are usually done at 9 sigma standards,…

Do we know for a fact that it disappeared from military radar? Also, how low of an altitude would it have to fly to avoid radar? Maybe they dropped down to a thousand feet and changed course?

> Do we know for a fact that it disappeared from military radar?

We only know what we are told, when it comes from military sources...

Re: Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

#53

Post by Blahah » Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 7:42 AM UTC

chrismcb wrote: post #48

Here is what I don't get. A plane, a HUGE plane, supposedly just disappeared. Near China. So this whole "fly under the radar" is just BS? You just need to turn off your transponder, and you can fly wherever you want?

>You just need to turn off your transponder, and you can fly wherever you want?

Just from reading comments in the linked piece, it seems that is true for some parts of the world. The malay military didn't have an operational air defence radar system, or they might have had a better idea where it was going. And there are areas around the Bay of Bengal with no radar coverage either, which, if the plane was hijacked, might be where it headed.

Re: Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

#54

Post by curtis » Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 7:44 AM UTC

mariuolo wrote: post #19

m_darkTemplar wrote: post #10

I wonder why this data wasn't available earlier. It seems like it would have been very useful in the searches.

Who says it wasn't? It's likely they kept it to themselves.

Who's "they"? The Malaysian government? Even if they wanted to suppress the information, they don't control the ACARS network.

Re: Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

#55

Post by mootothemax » Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 7:44 AM UTC

Blahah wrote: post #27

ekianjo wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * On February 22nd, aircraft 9M-MRO underwent maintenance. During this, or during a previous maintenance cycle, an empty oxygen bottle was installed by mistake for a full one, or a valve was jammed, or some other undetected fault rendered the flight deck crew's emergency oxygen supply inoperable. That sounds extremely unlikely. Standard procedures for equipment checks in plane are usually done at 9 sigma standards,…

He does reference the case of Helios Airways Flight 522[0], where a similar situation happened as a result of human error (leaving the pressurisation system set to manual). 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522

He does reference the case of Helios Airways Flight 522[0], where a similar situation happened as a result of human error (leaving the pressurisation system set to manual).

Plus, it's possible that the pilots had too much faith in the "9 sigma" system, hence misinterpreting the numerous warnings the aircraft gave them.

Numbers prove us wrong every day.

Re: Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

#56

Post by hartator » Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 7:45 AM UTC

chrismcb wrote: post #48

Here is what I don't get. A plane, a HUGE plane, supposedly just disappeared. Near China. So this whole "fly under the radar" is just BS? You just need to turn off your transponder, and you can fly wherever you want?

I agree that's the weird part.

Every countries spend literary billions to develop radars, stealth fighters and ways to disrupts radars. Now, we understand in a closed area watched by several nations and operating by clear weather, they can't effectively localise one big civilian aircraft? For 4 hours? Because just the guy turn off transponder?

I think either we have been seriously mislead of what our technologies capabilities are or one of states of the area in knowing more than it said.

Re: Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

#57

Post by Blahah » Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 7:45 AM UTC

mbreese wrote: post #47

Blahah wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an emergency access code to get through the security door, at least on a 737: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2014/03/a-hypoth... .

But who has the code? That'd be important information to have.

According to the Helios 522 investigation report, all staff aboard the flight.

Re: Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

#58

Post by noobermin » Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 7:47 AM UTC

mootothemax wrote: post #51

fosk wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an interesting article. One of the comments also gives another plausible solution. Pasting it here for convenience: "There are a number of troubles with that theory Charles, one of which is that the plane should have followed its intended course and stayed on radar by passive reflection, but it is certainly also one of my favourite theories right now. The lack of debris near where it disappeared from the rada…

If the cargo was the interesting bit, killing off all the passengers by dropping pressure and oxygen is trivial. When was the last time a criminal killed ~240 people in order to steal some loot? The solution proposed would, at best, be extraordinary; flippantly adding mass murder makes it absurd.

I mean, it would seem easier to steal the cargo at the airport before it got on the plane, just bribe a few ground workers, I guess. Steal some passports, hijack, then divert the plane just for cargo?

It wasn't the cargo; the only reason to hijack the plane would be either the people or the plane or both. Or, it was an accident.

Re: Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

#59

Post by mootothemax » Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 7:49 AM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #35

Blahah wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He does reference the case of Helios Airways Flight 522[0], where a similar situation happened as a result of human error (leaving the pressurisation system set to manual). 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522

This was not the same place (737 is damn old in design, from the 70s, 777 was designed in the 90s), this was not an international flight (security standards for international flights are stricter), so I'm not sure he even tries to compare both of them. Why not reference a Cessna incident as well ?

Edit: deleted hostile, snarky content.

Re: Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

#60

Post by mootothemax » Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 7:51 AM UTC

noobermin wrote: post #58

mootothemax wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the cargo was the interesting bit, killing off all the passengers by dropping pressure and oxygen is trivial. When was the last time a criminal killed ~240 people in order to steal some loot? The solution proposed would, at best, be extraordinary; flippantly adding mass murder makes it absurd.

I mean, it would seem easier to steal the cargo at the airport before it got on the plane, just bribe a few ground workers, I guess. Steal some passports, hijack, then divert the plane just for cargo? It wasn't the cargo; the only reason to hijack the plane would be either the people or the plane or both. Or, it was an accident.

I mean, it would seem easier to steal the cargo at the airport before it got on the plane, just bribe a few ground workers, I guess. Steal some passports, hijack, then divert the plane just for cargo

Exactly.

Even if we want to be horrible about it and suggest beating up and possibly killing ground worker(s), that's a waaaaaaay off killing 240+ people on an airplane.