Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the past, the reaction to pitchfork was usually emigration
To where? An island with no poor people? The world is too small for emigration to be a solution anymore.
Just to a better run place.
Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family
91–100 of 114 posts
Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family
#92Fascinating story of the growth of a giant. I wish they hadn't glossed over the early growth of the company and how it grew during the Cold War and the divide in Europe. Anyone know any more about that part?
I know that Quelle, one of their competitors, got products manufactured in east Germany.
Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
"I guess it depends on what employees are looking for in their career - to be the best they can be, or live a laid back lifestyle." You're not being the best when you burn out. You're killing yourself and your productivity with it. We have decades of research concluding that productivity falls when you're overworked. "The company (in this case, Amazon) got great results from its employee, the employee had a good expe…
>Yes, because companies shouldn't have to work their employees to the bone to extract value from them. A long time ago, we decided that it's cruel, and created labor laws. Where have you been? Who is 'we'? You're wearing clothes and using a computer and probably exclusively using products that were made in nation-states that have virtually no labor laws. Where were you when globalization happened? Regardless of moral…
They have lots of crazy labour laws in poor places. What makes you think they haven't?
Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
That certainly works too, but I don't think you need to be corrupt to go that route.
Oh, my argument is that corruption (by other people) causes innocent/good people to be poor, and then other people who are self-interested (at least) and potentially altruistic can help those poor people. Although generally my preferred form of helping would involve the corrupt people and some rope; much more efficient.
I think the Chinese govt. is roughly on the same page as you re rope, though I don't know how much of that is actually just a weapon to be wielded against opponents. I wonder how well that's been working at reducing corruption.
Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree. I think, today's Otto Group is not morally superior to Amazon's business at all, at least judged by their Hermes business. At least, I can not see any viable differences. What totally pisses me off is, the aura of "charity" that Otto is surrounding around himself. He also got a high German medal (the so called "Große Verdienstkreuz mit Stern") for his charities. With examples like these, German high medals b…
What winners of the Nobel Peace Prize have been the "worst persons that have lived"?
All of the leaders of countries involved in any kind of war during their ruling would certainly meet the criteria. If Yaser Arafat and Barack Obama deserved the Nobel Peace Prize, I guess now it's time for Vladimir Putin to make the list complete?
Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family
#96If you see how Hermes Group, an Otto owned logistics company, (sub-)subcontractors have to handle their daily work load at (often below) minimum wage pay, often with their private cars, it's hard to believe he's that serious about running a morally superior business for any other reason than getting good PR. DHL is not golden either but Hermes is just bad in every aspect. As a private customer in Germany I would try…
Hermes Logistics is but ONE of Otto Group's +100 companies. HL isn't even a mainstay of the OG portfolio as they were only purchased a few years ago. Judge not, the whole bushel because of one bad apple.
Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
You cannot compare Hermes with the rest of the group. Hermes' working conditions are a result of the logistic market. And that is quite different from the conditions you find in retail. I worked for Otto in Hamburg and i can say that the benelovence is not just show.
I also strongly disagree with the (white-washing) statement, that the working conditions at Hermes are purely a result of the logistic market! There are other logistic companies that still have far better working conditions. So it is possible. The whole construction of Hermes is made this way, that the conditions of the workers are bad and Hermes itself can wash their hands of it. Even the small companies in between…
Hermes working conditions might not be the result of the market dynamics itself but you cannot put the blame on the Otto Group either. Hermes was a wholly separate company that was purchased by the Otto Group. It's not like OG bought the company and came in and put in place all these conditions.
Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
How? I'm corrupt, and their are scavengers rummaging through the alley that runs behind the office. How do I leverage this poverty to make some sweet green? I've watched them dig through the trash, and they don't have anything, and they are just collecting bottles and cans for recycling. How do I profit from this?
Assuming that they are poor though otherwise functional (capable of work), then in order to make money from them you take advantage of them, knowing that poor people desperate for money to support their families will put up with more shit. Have a "recycling" company and need somebody to man one of the electronics burning pits? Get one of those poor guys in they alley to do it. What are his other options? You may need…
Perhaps, but you are assuming their labor is worth more than a trivial amount in the first place. If it was, then they wouldn't be unemployed or poor to begin with. And regardless, that has little to do with corruption. It's just underpaying an employee.
Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family
#99If you see how Hermes Group, an Otto owned logistics company, (sub-)subcontractors have to handle their daily work load at (often below) minimum wage pay, often with their private cars, it's hard to believe he's that serious about running a morally superior business for any other reason than getting good PR. DHL is not golden either but Hermes is just bad in every aspect. As a private customer in Germany I would try…
There is no such thing as a "minimum wage" in Germany - at least not yet.
Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family
#100Moral of the story is - people like their goods to be cheap, quickly delivered, and convenient to order. Amazon encompasses all of that and it seems that Otto's companies do not. I applaud his effort to put people ahead of profits, but unless he changes his business model amazon will continue to eclipse his empire.
Counterpoint: Perhaps government should enact regulation to lift the floor to prevent a race to the bottom. Amazon warehouses shouldn't become the sweatshops of tomorrow. Governments exist to protect their citizens, not their businesses.
That would work in the short term, but in the long term they are just going to get rid of the employees entirely with robots. Which is of course, far worse, and already widely done in other industries, with no one protesting them.