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Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

forbes.com

31–40 of 114 posts

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#31
post #10

The Otto Group’s sales are up 17% in Germany since the recession, while Amazon’s have doubled since 2010. Huh? This comparison confused me. I wonder why the author didn't use the same years? What was the baseline?

It's an unfortunate but common practice I've noticed: they don't want repetition, or anything close to it, so they jump between synonyms -- or, sadly, what the journalist thinks is a synonym. But since a lot of synonyms aren't perfect (or just aren't synonyms), you can't tell what they mean, and this is a prime example of it.

I see this same phenomenon in software/API documentation too, where you can't tell what is a necessary term to use, and what's an arbitrary label. Most recent case was a vim doc for how to record macros, and gave an example starting with "qq", which will store the macro into the letter q. But you always type q to start the macro, so using an example where the macro also is called 'q' just confuses things. They should have used an example like "qa", where it's clear that q is for all macros, and the second char is where it gets store. (Yes, you can un-ring that bell with further clarification, but it's still a bad example.)

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#32

I wonder how much of Otto's benevolence is being played up in the article (discouraging weekend working, tolerance of gigantic strategic failures). If he truly does what he's saying, it sounds like a very pleasant and productive place to work.

I do not agree with Otto's benevolence. I think it is just show. When you see what he is doing with his Hermes business, he is not benevolent at all but throws many people even deeper into despair. There was also a documentary about his life-ruining business but the big "benefactor" just found covering slogans to disguise what it is really about: To rip people off. When his other businesses work the same, than it is…

You cannot compare Hermes with the rest of the group. Hermes' working conditions are a result of the logistic market. And that is quite different from the conditions you find in retail. I worked for Otto in Hamburg and i can say that the benelovence is not just show.

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#33
post #20
post #12

(This was nearly impossible to read on mobile) Michael Otto’s family has been as omnipresent in German postwar retail as Wal-Mart, Sears and Target have in the U.S. So what does this 70-year-old patriarch of this $18 billion clan most want to talk about? A factory in Bangladesh. With gusto he describes how he and Nobel Peace Prize- winner Muhammad Yunus hatched a plan to build a humane clothing factory, where all pro…

Corruption is more cause than effect of poverty.

Poverty is a tool, leveraged by the corrupt.

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#34
post #7

There's such a strong negative connotation to "burning out" in the article. If an employee puts in a solid 2-3 years and delivers great results for a company, "burns out", and then moves on to a new role or company, is that really that bad? The company (in this case, Amazon) got great results from its employee, the employee had a good experience (and can leverage it to get a promotion, internally or externally). I gu…

I don't disagree with any of these comments... running employees into the ground for an extended period of time can't be good. Happy, motivated employees are crucial to the success of any company.

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not agree with Otto's benevolence. I think it is just show. When you see what he is doing with his Hermes business, he is not benevolent at all but throws many people even deeper into despair. There was also a documentary about his life-ruining business but the big "benefactor" just found covering slogans to disguise what it is really about: To rip people off. When his other businesses work the same, than it is…

You cannot compare Hermes with the rest of the group. Hermes' working conditions are a result of the logistic market. And that is quite different from the conditions you find in retail. I worked for Otto in Hamburg and i can say that the benelovence is not just show.

Could be. I have no comparison possibility here. But I don't understand, why Otto himself is defending the very bad conditions at Hermes.

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#36
post #9

If you see how Hermes Group, an Otto owned logistics company, (sub-)subcontractors have to handle their daily work load at (often below) minimum wage pay, often with their private cars, it's hard to believe he's that serious about running a morally superior business for any other reason than getting good PR. DHL is not golden either but Hermes is just bad in every aspect. As a private customer in Germany I would try…

I agree. I think, today's Otto Group is not morally superior to Amazon's business at all, at least judged by their Hermes business. At least, I can not see any viable differences. What totally pisses me off is, the aura of "charity" that Otto is surrounding around himself. He also got a high German medal (the so called "Große Verdienstkreuz mit Stern") for his charities. With examples like these, German high medals b…

What winners of the Nobel Peace Prize have been the "worst persons that have lived"?

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Amazon warehouses shouldn't become the sweatshops of tomorrow" They already are... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25034598 http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03k5kzp/Panorama_Amazo... http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/01/week-amazo...

I'm aware. I have more faith in the German government protecting its citizens compared to the US government.

soon robots will eliminate those jobs completely anyway, the ultimate protection against low-wage jobs

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I think, today's Otto Group is not morally superior to Amazon's business at all, at least judged by their Hermes business. At least, I can not see any viable differences. What totally pisses me off is, the aura of "charity" that Otto is surrounding around himself. He also got a high German medal (the so called "Große Verdienstkreuz mit Stern") for his charities. With examples like these, German high medals b…

What winners of the Nobel Peace Prize have been the "worst persons that have lived"?

Yasser Arafat and Henry Kissinger come to mind.

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I think, today's Otto Group is not morally superior to Amazon's business at all, at least judged by their Hermes business. At least, I can not see any viable differences. What totally pisses me off is, the aura of "charity" that Otto is surrounding around himself. He also got a high German medal (the so called "Große Verdienstkreuz mit Stern") for his charities. With examples like these, German high medals b…

What winners of the Nobel Peace Prize have been the "worst persons that have lived"?

Henry Kissenger, for one, was a straight-up war criminal. “Worst persons who have lived” doesn’t have a very precise definition though, so I’ll pass on judging that one.

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I think, today's Otto Group is not morally superior to Amazon's business at all, at least judged by their Hermes business. At least, I can not see any viable differences. What totally pisses me off is, the aura of "charity" that Otto is surrounding around himself. He also got a high German medal (the so called "Große Verdienstkreuz mit Stern") for his charities. With examples like these, German high medals b…

> What totally pisses me off is, the aura of "charity" that Otto is surrounding around himself. Agreed; we need an equivalent to "greenwashing" to describe this behaviour...

It's right there with the "trickle-down" myth. The whole idea that that CSR[1] somehow frees companies from paying their share in social taxes and exempts them from regulations[2]; that the government controlled social sector and welfare could be privatized (at least in Germany there's something left) and social taxes and regulations could be replaced by voluntary CSR measures. It might work for a few PR-exploitable areas, but not everything yields a ROI high enough to please the investors.

If a company want's to do something good they should show it first through their products, trough the resources they are made with and how well they treat their employees.[3]

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_social_responsibility...

[2] http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/21/business/media/comcasts-we...

[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7176028

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