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Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

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Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#51

Post by Crito »

samplonius wrote: post #46
samstave wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poverty is a tool, leveraged by the corrupt.

How? I'm corrupt, and their are scavengers rummaging through the alley that runs behind the office. How do I leverage this poverty to make some sweet green? I've watched them dig through the trash, and they don't have anything, and they are just collecting bottles and cans for recycling. How do I profit from this?

Assuming that they are poor though otherwise functional (capable of work), then in order to make money from them you take advantage of them, knowing that poor people desperate for money to support their families will put up with more shit.

Have a "recycling" company and need somebody to man one of the electronics burning pits? Get one of those poor guys in they alley to do it. What are his other options?

You may need to bribe others to get away with this, but if those people are also relatively poor, the bribes should be affordable.

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#52

Post by mathattack »

mxfh wrote: post #9

If you see how Hermes Group, an Otto owned logistics company, (sub-)subcontractors have to handle their daily work load at (often below) minimum wage pay, often with their private cars, it's hard to believe he's that serious about running a morally superior business for any other reason than getting good PR. DHL is not golden either but Hermes is just bad in every aspect. As a private customer in Germany I would try…

This is true of a lot of firms. Large companies like to be pillars of the business community, but push their problems to their suppliers. It's not just Otto.

The other challenge is it's hard to change a paternalistic culture where "Dad" is looking out for everyone. It's hard to make change happen, and hard to get people to double down during a crisis. The lethargy at these cultures is palpable.

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#53

Post by this_user »

What isn't mentioned in that article is that two other high profile German mail order companies ("Quelle" and "Neckermann") declared bankruptcy over the last couple of years and were mostly liquidated, because their business models had become unsustainable. Otto so far is the last of those former giants standing and probably profiting from the death of its direct competition.

An acquaintance of mine actually works for Otto and he told me several things. First of all, in the heads of many people at that company the catalogue is still the main driver of revenue. Online is more or less an afterthought. This is also reflected in their average customer who is older and less educated than the average Amazon customer. Secondly, their IT is ancient by Silicon Valley standards. Orders, for instance, are allegedly only processed once at night by batch job, because their infrastructure doesn't support anything else.

All in all, my money is on Amazon and Zalando (basically an Amazon clone supported by the infamous Samwer brothers) who will soon run circles around Otto if they don't catch up fast which isn't an easy thing to do with a slow behemoth of a company like that.

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#54

Post by Phlarp »

oijaf888 wrote: post #36
PythonicAlpha wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I think, today's Otto Group is not morally superior to Amazon's business at all, at least judged by their Hermes business. At least, I can not see any viable differences. What totally pisses me off is, the aura of "charity" that Otto is surrounding around himself. He also got a high German medal (the so called "Große Verdienstkreuz mit Stern") for his charities. With examples like these, German high medals b…

What winners of the Nobel Peace Prize have been the "worst persons that have lived"?

Perhaps not in the "worst person that have lived" category; but many have said Obama was awarded the prize almost entirely on the merit of campaign promises he has since failed to enact.

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#55

Post by rdl »

Crito wrote: post #51
samplonius wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? I'm corrupt, and their are scavengers rummaging through the alley that runs behind the office. How do I leverage this poverty to make some sweet green? I've watched them dig through the trash, and they don't have anything, and they are just collecting bottles and cans for recycling. How do I profit from this?

Assuming that they are poor though otherwise functional (capable of work), then in order to make money from them you take advantage of them, knowing that poor people desperate for money to support their families will put up with more shit. Have a "recycling" company and need somebody to man one of the electronics burning pits? Get one of those poor guys in they alley to do it. What are his other options? You may need…

My preferred way to make money from poverty is that tiny investments can produce huge returns. There are also high search costs.

If you can find poor people who are really smart and haven't been permanently damaged by their experience (i.e. internalized failure, still believe success is possible, etc.), you can find some really amazing employees, partners, etc. People for whom "find a place to stay in California for a few weeks while looking for a job" is basically impossible.

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#56

Post by BrandonMarc »

samplonius wrote: post #46
samstave wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poverty is a tool, leveraged by the corrupt.

How? I'm corrupt, and their are scavengers rummaging through the alley that runs behind the office. How do I leverage this poverty to make some sweet green? I've watched them dig through the trash, and they don't have anything, and they are just collecting bottles and cans for recycling. How do I profit from this?

Payday lending and rent-to-own are two legal, and rather corrupt* ways to scam money from poor people.

* In general these businesses do not make their lives better; they're worse off than if they hadn't done business with them in the first place. In general ... ymmv

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#57

Post by Crito »

rdl wrote: post #55
Crito wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming that they are poor though otherwise functional (capable of work), then in order to make money from them you take advantage of them, knowing that poor people desperate for money to support their families will put up with more shit. Have a "recycling" company and need somebody to man one of the electronics burning pits? Get one of those poor guys in they alley to do it. What are his other options? You may need…

My preferred way to make money from poverty is that tiny investments can produce huge returns. There are also high search costs. If you can find poor people who are really smart and haven't been permanently damaged by their experience (i.e. internalized failure, still believe success is possible, etc.), you can find some really amazing employees, partners, etc. People for whom "find a place to stay in California for…

That certainly works too, but I don't think you need to be corrupt to go that route.

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#58

Post by rdl »

Crito wrote: post #57
rdl wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My preferred way to make money from poverty is that tiny investments can produce huge returns. There are also high search costs. If you can find poor people who are really smart and haven't been permanently damaged by their experience (i.e. internalized failure, still believe success is possible, etc.), you can find some really amazing employees, partners, etc. People for whom "find a place to stay in California for…

That certainly works too, but I don't think you need to be corrupt to go that route.

Oh, my argument is that corruption (by other people) causes innocent/good people to be poor, and then other people who are self-interested (at least) and potentially altruistic can help those poor people.

Although generally my preferred form of helping would involve the corrupt people and some rope; much more efficient.

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#59

Post by samstave »

samplonius wrote: post #46
samstave wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poverty is a tool, leveraged by the corrupt.

How? I'm corrupt, and their are scavengers rummaging through the alley that runs behind the office. How do I leverage this poverty to make some sweet green? I've watched them dig through the trash, and they don't have anything, and they are just collecting bottles and cans for recycling. How do I profit from this?

Based on youre asking this, you fall into the poverty bucket.

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#60

Post by einrealist »

PythonicAlpha wrote: post #42
einrealist wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot compare Hermes with the rest of the group. Hermes' working conditions are a result of the logistic market. And that is quite different from the conditions you find in retail. I worked for Otto in Hamburg and i can say that the benelovence is not just show.

I also strongly disagree with the (white-washing) statement, that the working conditions at Hermes are purely a result of the logistic market! There are other logistic companies that still have far better working conditions. So it is possible. The whole construction of Hermes is made this way, that the conditions of the workers are bad and Hermes itself can wash their hands of it. Even the small companies in between…

I did not say that Otto is innocent in this case. Most of the bad press is a result of Hermes' overdependence of contractors, who often have contractors themselves. Of course, each link in the chain of contractors is obligated to make profit from the already low shipping price. DHL has this problem too (see the small "On behalf of" at the logo). Even though, DHL has another history (Deutsche Post) and therefore some advantages. The logistic companies are working on this. As a result you find more and more pickup shops. It is even discussed to make door-to-door delivery a premium service, so less delivery wo/men are needed and prices for direct shipping can be raised. The standard service will then be to pickup shops or automated packet stations only. Of course, this can be prevented if customers would accept higher shippings costs...
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