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Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

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Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#41
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm aware. I have more faith in the German government protecting its citizens compared to the US government.

soon robots will eliminate those jobs completely anyway, the ultimate protection against low-wage jobs

The option then will be simple:

Pitchforks or a Basic Income.

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not agree with Otto's benevolence. I think it is just show. When you see what he is doing with his Hermes business, he is not benevolent at all but throws many people even deeper into despair. There was also a documentary about his life-ruining business but the big "benefactor" just found covering slogans to disguise what it is really about: To rip people off. When his other businesses work the same, than it is…

You cannot compare Hermes with the rest of the group. Hermes' working conditions are a result of the logistic market. And that is quite different from the conditions you find in retail. I worked for Otto in Hamburg and i can say that the benelovence is not just show.

I also strongly disagree with the (white-washing) statement, that the working conditions at Hermes are purely a result of the logistic market!

There are other logistic companies that still have far better working conditions. So it is possible.

The whole construction of Hermes is made this way, that the conditions of the workers are bad and Hermes itself can wash their hands of it. Even the small companies in between this "chain of irresponsibility" are complaining of bad conditions and many go bankrupt for Otto's billions.

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#43
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What totally pisses me off is, the aura of "charity" that Otto is surrounding around himself. Agreed; we need an equivalent to "greenwashing" to describe this behaviour...

It's right there with the "trickle-down" myth. The whole idea that that CSR[1] somehow frees companies from paying their share in social taxes and exempts them from regulations[2]; that the government controlled social sector and welfare could be privatized (at least in Germany there's something left) and social taxes and regulations could be replaced by voluntary CSR measures. It might work for a few PR-exploitable…

I do not know, who ever came up with the idea, that voluntary CSR could replace social taxes and regulations, but in my opinion, that is nothing else as neo-capitalistic bullshit, again!

Those that believe in it should go to the worst areas of England and into the slums of the US and see what the results are. England once was one of the wealthiest and best to live in countries of the world. Now, after Thatcher, it is just a hollow carcass, cankered by neo-capitalism. What is left is the reign of the bankers, leaving some tips on the desk for the underdogs.

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#44
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

soon robots will eliminate those jobs completely anyway, the ultimate protection against low-wage jobs

The option then will be simple: Pitchforks or a Basic Income.

Or performing some useful function that can't trivially be replaced by menial robotic labor?

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#45
post #7

There's such a strong negative connotation to "burning out" in the article. If an employee puts in a solid 2-3 years and delivers great results for a company, "burns out", and then moves on to a new role or company, is that really that bad? The company (in this case, Amazon) got great results from its employee, the employee had a good experience (and can leverage it to get a promotion, internally or externally). I gu…

"I guess it depends on what employees are looking for in their career - to be the best they can be, or live a laid back lifestyle." You're not being the best when you burn out. You're killing yourself and your productivity with it. We have decades of research concluding that productivity falls when you're overworked. "The company (in this case, Amazon) got great results from its employee, the employee had a good expe…

I think what is missing from the discussion so far is german work ethic. I am in awe of it. During work hours, people work. That's it. But when they are off, they are off. This strikes me as balance.

There is a BBC documentary called "How to make a German". I highly recommend watching it. After I watched it, I changed my own personal working style to be more efficient. It shocked me how much a difference it made. Since I am posting on HN during work hours, I can't say I'm doing it perfectly :p

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#46
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corruption is more cause than effect of poverty.

Poverty is a tool, leveraged by the corrupt.

How? I'm corrupt, and their are scavengers rummaging through the alley that runs behind the office. How do I leverage this poverty to make some sweet green? I've watched them dig through the trash, and they don't have anything, and they are just collecting bottles and cans for recycling. How do I profit from this?

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#47
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The option then will be simple: Pitchforks or a Basic Income.

Or performing some useful function that can't trivially be replaced by menial robotic labor?

Would you consider being a doctor a useful function? IBM's Watson already performs as well as a second year med student [http://www.forbes.com/sites/bruceupbin/2011/05/25/ibms-watso...].

Eventually, all jobs will be replaced by software or robotic labor. What then?

EDIT:

"Your Job Taught to Machines Puts Half U.S. Work at Risk" http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-12/your-job-taught-to-...

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#48
post #16
post #7

There's such a strong negative connotation to "burning out" in the article. If an employee puts in a solid 2-3 years and delivers great results for a company, "burns out", and then moves on to a new role or company, is that really that bad? The company (in this case, Amazon) got great results from its employee, the employee had a good experience (and can leverage it to get a promotion, internally or externally). I gu…

I think it's more a question of what someone wants out of life. If your job is your life, than that makes more sense. If you value things outside of whatever you do for money, then working to burnout is only going to harm those other aspects of your life and ultimately you. I don't think it's unreasonable to put some grey space between being the best you can be and being laid back. Something like working reasonable h…

Also, for the kind of employee this is about, "your job is your life" is unlikely to be true, at least not in the meaning that you imply. "Your jobs are your life", in some cases is appropriate, not because they enjoy their job, but because there's so little else.

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#49
post #9

If you see how Hermes Group, an Otto owned logistics company, (sub-)subcontractors have to handle their daily work load at (often below) minimum wage pay, often with their private cars, it's hard to believe he's that serious about running a morally superior business for any other reason than getting good PR. DHL is not golden either but Hermes is just bad in every aspect. As a private customer in Germany I would try…

Fully agree with you. Every time I see a Hermes notice on my door I have immediate nightmares where the package might have landed.

A few weeks ago, after asking Hermes to deliver the package to a local Hermes station, it took a lot of discussion with the guy there trying to convince him to go through the packages. With him stating it wasn't delivered, while Hermes confirmed me it was there.

To put it shortly, the package was there and this is a common occurrence with Hermes deliveries.

If you can control which company is handling your deliveries, never ever use Hermes besides sending stuff back to Amazon.

Re: Amazon's War On The House Of Otto, Germany's $18 Billion Family

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Amazon warehouses shouldn't become the sweatshops of tomorrow" They already are... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25034598 http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03k5kzp/Panorama_Amazo... http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/01/week-amazo...

I'm aware. I have more faith in the German government protecting its citizens compared to the US government.

Based on what? The Otto Group is battling unions in Hermes, like Amazon is battling unions in their warehouses. Is there any difference at all?

I know Europe like to view US as a big monster to scare kids: you better behave or big mean US will eat you!

But is there anything objective that the German gov't is going to help anyone anymore than the US gov't? Maybe healhcare?

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