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Apple Expects Google Voice App Developers To Pay Refunds Out Of Pocket

gizmodo.com.au

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Re: Apple Expects Google Voice App Developers To Pay Refunds Out Of Pocket

#61

Post by CamperBob »

pyre wrote: post #32
dejb wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It certainly has been a strange phenomena, seeing otherwise intelligent geeks arguing the virtues of such a closed and locked down system. I frankly started to wonder whether Apple had a team of paid voters. Hopefully all this results in a freeing up of US mobile networks.

Benevolent dictator syndrome. Apple/Jobs have produced a lot of cool and good products out of the 'my way is always the best way, and I need 100% micromanagement control to make things my way' attitude. Apple has always had this philosophy -- at least under Jobs -- but people tend dismiss it because up to now it's served Apple and Apple fans well. Though I'm sure if you popped over to someplace like the AppleInsider.…

"These Google Voice apps duplicate 'x' functionality. Sorry, but we won't allow it."

That's almost word-for-word what they did say. The problem is inconsistency -- there are tons of apps that could be, but have not been, rejected on the same grounds.

Re: Apple Expects Google Voice App Developers To Pay Refunds Out Of Pocket

#62

Post by jacquesm »

CamperBob wrote: post #60
jacquesm wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, I have. But I figured if I'm going to have a computer in my pocket then I want to be able to program the thing the way I see fit. Also, I have noticed that the people that do have Iphones use every opportunity to 'flash' them. Probably a big part of the appeal of the Ipod touch is that it looks like an Iphone...

Admittedly it costs $100/year to get the signing key, but with that, I can program my own iPhone any way I see fit. I just can't count on Apple agreeing to distribute what I write. That does suck, but it has little overall effect on the usefulness of the phone to me as a portable computer. When I bought my first iPhone, there was no App Store at all, and Apple was actively stating that there was not going to be any s…

> and one of the things I don't like about the experience is the way I completely lose awareness of my surroundings and people nearby.

That's a new one, never even thought that that might be the case. Interesting!

I've had it while on the phone and driving 'on autopilot', and since then I've become a lot more careful about using the phone in the car. (headset only anyway of course, but still). One day I missed my exit completely, and wasn't aware that it had happened until 20 minutes later (still in the same conversation). Quite a good lesson.

Re: Apple Expects Google Voice App Developers To Pay Refunds Out Of Pocket

#63

Post by DougBTX »

jws wrote: post #48
DougBTX wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The customers' money is in the developers account It gets worse: some 30% of that money is in Apple's pocket, but 100% of the refund comes from the developer. Apple gets to keep their cut even after the refund, as per the developer contract, even though the reason for the refunds is because of Apple blocking further deployments from the developer. Harsh circumstances.

I think you are misinformed. Some people read the developer agreement this way and trumpeted loudly, and it is a fair interpretation, but as I understand it Apple only retrieves the 70% they paid the developers from the developers. See http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10205293-37.html and skip down to the "Updated 4:00 p.m." at the bottom of the article where the journalist adds the response from Apple's representat…

That does sound much more sane, good to know.

I guess any increase in returns from this Google Voice palaver will get highlighted if more than the 70% is taken from the developer's account.

Re: Apple Expects Google Voice App Developers To Pay Refunds Out Of Pocket

#64

Post by ROFISH »

chaosprophet wrote: post #46
Gormo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The analogy with the Mac doesn't really work, because the Mac has never been anything but a computing platform. But the iPhone is a phone first and a platform second. Remember that the iPhone was a huge success when it was introduced in 2007, despite a higher price point and no third-party apps at all. As long as the iPhone is subsidized by phone carriers, Apple's cash cow will be hardware sales. It won't be until th…

I wouldn't agree that the iPhone is a phone first. How many people bought an iPhone so that they could call or text others? The value proposition of the iPhone is not in its phone features, it's in the smartphone features. The only reason that it doesn't seem to matter is because there is no real rival to the iPhone platform. I do agree that the smartphone market needs more real rivals to the iPhone (I'm kinda wonder…

Actually I bought mine because it's an iPod and a phone with a nice browser. Apps/Games are a frosted topping I use when bored.

Re: Apple Expects Google Voice App Developers To Pay Refunds Out Of Pocket

#65

Post by cubicle67 »

credo wrote: post #35

I realize that this is a contrarian view, but (in its aim at being sensational), the headline is incorrect. Apple has not said that it expects developers to pay any refunds out of pocket. On the contrary, the app-store/itunes agreement tells consumers/users that they are not entitled to any refunds for the apps they purchase. Again, I realize that this is a contrarian view and every comment on this item (more than 50…

Yes, the headline is sensationalist and incorrect. What's worse is that I've had to trawl through several hundred comments (I had the misfortune to venture into Reddit territory) before I found someone who noticed.

The actual story is that if any customer who has already purchased one of these apps decided to claim a refund, and that claim is accepted by Apple, then the developer loses the money they made from that sale (70% of the purchase price). That's it.

The only difference between this and any other app, is that these developers are unable to update their apps to fix any existing bugs.

Re: Apple Expects Google Voice App Developers To Pay Refunds Out Of Pocket

#66

Post by cubicle67 »

pyre wrote: post #42
9oliYQjP wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to a free iPhone Developer Tech Talk where they specifically addressed this policy. Not too many developers in the audience seemed thrilled about it, but it was laid out in front of them. If a customer comes to you for whatever reason asking for a refund, Apple's official policy is that it is your problem to deal with. I specifically made a note about it because I caught the Apple representative's very lawyer-…

You're missing the two main points: 1. The developer is on the hook for refunding 100% of the sale price... but Apple takes a 30% cut of the sale price. So the developer is actually _losing_ money to make a refund to the customer. 2. Apple is the cause of the refunds. Apple is in a win-win situation here (for them) because they are making their own decisions and shrugging off any responsibility or consequences for th…

NO! this is wrong and I'm sick of seeing it repeated over and over again.

The developer IS NOT on the hook for 100%. They ARE NOT losing money.

Re: Apple Expects Google Voice App Developers To Pay Refunds Out Of Pocket

#67

Post by shiranaihito »

jrwoodruff wrote: post #28
axod wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy the "People buy the iPhone because it has the app store". The app store is a nice value add, but it's hardly instrumental in the iPhone success story.

I disagree. I know LOT's of people with an iPod touch that want an iPhone just because they want their apps to access the 'net everywhere, not just wi-fi spots. The iPhone is a game changer, and the app store is absolutely instrumental in the story of it's success. If it isn't, why is the iPhone tagline "there's an app for that?"

> they want their apps to access the 'net everywhere, not just wi-fi spots.

Well, isn't it the connectivity they want then, and not the App Store specifically?

Re: Apple Expects Google Voice App Developers To Pay Refunds Out Of Pocket

#68

Post by pyre »

cubicle67 wrote: post #66
pyre wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the two main points: 1. The developer is on the hook for refunding 100% of the sale price... but Apple takes a 30% cut of the sale price. So the developer is actually _losing_ money to make a refund to the customer. 2. Apple is the cause of the refunds. Apple is in a win-win situation here (for them) because they are making their own decisions and shrugging off any responsibility or consequences for th…

NO! this is wrong and I'm sick of seeing it repeated over and over again. The developer IS NOT on the hook for 100%. They ARE NOT losing money.

In any case, even if the developer is only on the hook for the 70% of the sale price, Apple is the cause of people asking for refunds. As such, Apple should refund them their money. Afterall, it was Apple's approval process that failed if it allowed some of these products into the AppStore where they were sold for months before Apple 'realized' that they were in violation. (At least according to Apple's official word on the subject)

Re: Apple Expects Google Voice App Developers To Pay Refunds Out Of Pocket

#69

Post by pyre »

CamperBob wrote: post #61
pyre wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Benevolent dictator syndrome. Apple/Jobs have produced a lot of cool and good products out of the 'my way is always the best way, and I need 100% micromanagement control to make things my way' attitude. Apple has always had this philosophy -- at least under Jobs -- but people tend dismiss it because up to now it's served Apple and Apple fans well. Though I'm sure if you popped over to someplace like the AppleInsider.…

"These Google Voice apps duplicate 'x' functionality. Sorry, but we won't allow it." That's almost word-for-word what they did say. The problem is inconsistency -- there are tons of apps that could be, but have not been, rejected on the same grounds.

No. They didn't say what 'x' functionality was. Just that it 'duplicated something, but we won't tell you what.'

Re: Apple Expects Google Voice App Developers To Pay Refunds Out Of Pocket

#70

Post by easp »

jacquesm wrote: post #59
CamperBob wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Translation: "I've never used an iPhone."

Actually, I have. But I figured if I'm going to have a computer in my pocket then I want to be able to program the thing the way I see fit. Also, I have noticed that the people that do have Iphones use every opportunity to 'flash' them. Probably a big part of the appeal of the Ipod touch is that it looks like an Iphone...

Also, I have noticed that the people that do have Iphones use every opportunity to 'flash' them.

or maybe they just take every opportunity to use them

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