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Apple Expects Google Voice App Developers To Pay Refunds Out Of Pocket

gizmodo.com.au

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Re: Apple Expects Google Voice App Developers To Pay Refunds Out Of Pocket

#41

Post by akd »

jrwoodruff wrote: post #28
axod wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy the "People buy the iPhone because it has the app store". The app store is a nice value add, but it's hardly instrumental in the iPhone success story.

I disagree. I know LOT's of people with an iPod touch that want an iPhone just because they want their apps to access the 'net everywhere, not just wi-fi spots. The iPhone is a game changer, and the app store is absolutely instrumental in the story of it's success. If it isn't, why is the iPhone tagline "there's an app for that?"

I think the people you're talking about are nonrepresentative. There is a vast number of people who have not installed any apps, and even more who have apps but don't use them. Very few people see the iPod touch as an economical substitute for the iPhone.

Re: Apple Expects Google Voice App Developers To Pay Refunds Out Of Pocket

#42

Post by pyre »

9oliYQjP wrote: post #6
quoderat wrote: post #2

If Apple gets any more evil, they will become kind of parody found in a Mike Myers movie. Makes me regret buying my Cinema Display from them

I went to a free iPhone Developer Tech Talk where they specifically addressed this policy. Not too many developers in the audience seemed thrilled about it, but it was laid out in front of them. If a customer comes to you for whatever reason asking for a refund, Apple's official policy is that it is your problem to deal with. I specifically made a note about it because I caught the Apple representative's very lawyer-…

You're missing the two main points:

1. The developer is on the hook for refunding 100% of the sale price... but Apple takes a 30% cut of the sale price. So the developer is actually _losing_ money to make a refund to the customer.

2. Apple is the cause of the refunds.

Apple is in a win-win situation here (for them) because they are making their own decisions and shrugging off any responsibility or consequences for their actions on to the developers. Wouldn't it be nice to have someone else take the fall and/or answer for the consequences of any actions that you take?

Re: Apple Expects Google Voice App Developers To Pay Refunds Out Of Pocket

#44

Post by ljlolel »

akd wrote: post #41
jrwoodruff wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I know LOT's of people with an iPod touch that want an iPhone just because they want their apps to access the 'net everywhere, not just wi-fi spots. The iPhone is a game changer, and the app store is absolutely instrumental in the story of it's success. If it isn't, why is the iPhone tagline "there's an app for that?"

I think the people you're talking about are nonrepresentative. There is a vast number of people who have not installed any apps, and even more who have apps but don't use them. Very few people see the iPod touch as an economical substitute for the iPhone.

No. You are wrong. Anecdotally, my older father is a way heavier user of apps than me. He listens to a lot of radio (NPR and even Pandora!) and loves the tip calculator and about a million other apps.

Kids loving playing games so much on their parents phones that Nintendo actually acknowledged the iPhone as a competitive threat on their earnings call.

Statistically, 75% of iPhone users use apps, which is 5x more than other phone users. Nielsen: http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/online_mobile/iphone-use... .

Be careful about assuming things. Apple's iPhone is important because for the first time ever there is an incredibly simple, usable interface to a full-powered computer.

Re: Apple Expects Google Voice App Developers To Pay Refunds Out Of Pocket

#45

Post by [deleted] »

Gormo wrote: post #15
chaosprophet wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I would like to see is a widespread developer boycott of the iPhone platform. This would bring Apple back to the days where they used to cajole developers into writing software for the Mac.

The analogy with the Mac doesn't really work, because the Mac has never been anything but a computing platform. But the iPhone is a phone first and a platform second. Remember that the iPhone was a huge success when it was introduced in 2007, despite a higher price point and no third-party apps at all. As long as the iPhone is subsidized by phone carriers, Apple's cash cow will be hardware sales. It won't be until th…

[deleted]

Re: Apple Expects Google Voice App Developers To Pay Refunds Out Of Pocket

#46

Post by chaosprophet »

Gormo wrote: post #15
chaosprophet wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I would like to see is a widespread developer boycott of the iPhone platform. This would bring Apple back to the days where they used to cajole developers into writing software for the Mac.

The analogy with the Mac doesn't really work, because the Mac has never been anything but a computing platform. But the iPhone is a phone first and a platform second. Remember that the iPhone was a huge success when it was introduced in 2007, despite a higher price point and no third-party apps at all. As long as the iPhone is subsidized by phone carriers, Apple's cash cow will be hardware sales. It won't be until th…

I wouldn't agree that the iPhone is a phone first. How many people bought an iPhone so that they could call or text others? The value proposition of the iPhone is not in its phone features, it's in the smartphone features. The only reason that it doesn't seem to matter is because there is no real rival to the iPhone platform. I do agree that the smartphone market needs more real rivals to the iPhone (I'm kinda wondering how Nokia is fumbling so badly here). If the HTC Hero is as good as it is claimed to be, then maybe the iPhone will see a hit in the hardware division, and Apple will be forced to behave more like a democracy.

Re: Apple Expects Google Voice App Developers To Pay Refunds Out Of Pocket

#47

Post by credo »

credo wrote: post #35

I realize that this is a contrarian view, but (in its aim at being sensational), the headline is incorrect. Apple has not said that it expects developers to pay any refunds out of pocket. On the contrary, the app-store/itunes agreement tells consumers/users that they are not entitled to any refunds for the apps they purchase. Again, I realize that this is a contrarian view and every comment on this item (more than 50…

so this has been downvoted for pointing out that the headline is incorrect and that people should look at the facts ?

anyway, I'll say it again. Apple has not said that it expects devs to pay refunds out of pocket. The headline is incorrect. If you disagree, please make the case for your argument instead of anonymous downvoting.

Re: Apple Expects Google Voice App Developers To Pay Refunds Out Of Pocket

#48

Post by jws »

DougBTX wrote: post #17
jws wrote: post #5

Of course they have to pay the customer refunds. The developers accepted a contract agreeing to refund money in certain circumstances, the circumstance have occurred, it is time for them to uphold their end of the contract. The sales have been rolled back, the customers' money is in the developers account (as sympathetic as "pocket" sounds, if they can carry the money in their pocket then this is about very little mo…

> The customers' money is in the developers account It gets worse: some 30% of that money is in Apple's pocket, but 100% of the refund comes from the developer. Apple gets to keep their cut even after the refund, as per the developer contract, even though the reason for the refunds is because of Apple blocking further deployments from the developer. Harsh circumstances.

I think you are misinformed. Some people read the developer agreement this way and trumpeted loudly, and it is a fair interpretation, but as I understand it Apple only retrieves the 70% they paid the developers from the developers.

See http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10205293-37.html and skip down to the "Updated 4:00 p.m." at the bottom of the article where the journalist adds the response from Apple's representative.

Are there sources where developers document being charged 100%?

Re: Apple Expects Google Voice App Developers To Pay Refunds Out Of Pocket

#49

Post by jws »

fatdog789 wrote: post #37
invisible wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, contracts are legally binding. However, there are judgments against contracts in civil court cases merely because the contract is ludicrous. E.g. Apple approved the application, then breached the values of the contract (despite it not being written in the contract) by rejecting the application although the application did not drastically change during it's life-cycle. (The argument may fall better under lack…

Or to put it more succinctly: Apple cannot retain the 30% if it was the cause of removal for an otherwise rules-abiding application. It's known as the doctrine of unclean hands (or possibly may even just be a plain ol' breach of contract).

Does anyone actually document Apple keeping 30%? It is my understanding that this is from a 3rd party interpretation of the contract and that Apple only retrieves the 70% they paid the developers.

Re: Apple Expects Google Voice App Developers To Pay Refunds Out Of Pocket

#50

Post by anigbrowl »

sammcd wrote: post #16

Why is this only newsworthy when Google has to pay the price. Developers have had to pay this price since the inception of the app store. This is one part of the agreement that I think is very unfair, and I am glad it is getting press. Sure we signed a legal agreement, but still it is a bad deal for us, and we have no alternative.

Because Google has the financial and social capital to publicly humiliate Apple if they feel like it. In other words, they are big enough to take revenge without putting their bottom line or brand at serious risk.

You know, flip off your neighbor and only a few people care. Flip off the president and you'll have people demanding you be brought up on treason charges.

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