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STEM Shortage Claims and Facebook's $19 Billion Acquisition of WhatsApp

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Re: STEM Shortage Claims and Facebook's $19 Billion Acquisition of WhatsApp

#201
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consumer web is 20 years old. Those engineers in their late 40s / early 50s invented the thing.

but do they understand the culture of the generation below them well enough to successfully capture market share? I'd argue that most older people are clueless to the rapidly changing millennial culture.

If: A) technology is accelerating B) the bar for status quo keeps lowering through enabling technologies C) only people that grew up in the new 'system' will be fluid at it

Then: A) most of the new ideas will come from a newer and newer cohort B) age-ism will become even more prevalent

Re: STEM Shortage Claims and Facebook's $19 Billion Acquisition of WhatsApp

#202

>> $19 billion in cash and stock (slightly less than the inflation adjusted cost of the Manhattan Project) Holy Crap !!! That cannot be right - surely not.... Edit: According to Wikipedia : "The Manhattan Project began modestly in 1939, but grew to employ more than 130,000 people and cost nearly US$2 billion (about $26 billion in 2014 dollars)." So, if you allow 7bn to be slightly less, then yes. It is right. And the…

There may be a disparity based upon how inflation is calculated. Plus or minus 40% after an interval of 75 years is not unreasonable for the purposes of an "about this big" comparison.

A Paasche index will understate price inflation, while a Laspeyres index will overstate it, due to demand elasticity. Governments may change the formula used to report changes in the money supply, using different measures like M1, M2, M3, and MZM, along with the average velocity of money. This obscures the amount of value intentional inflation extracts from the productive economy, at the cost of mathematical accuracy.

You could buy exactly one Manhattan project with 1939-1946 dollars for $2billion, of which 90% was production, and 10% R&D. You could buy exactly one Apollo Program with $25.4billion in 1961-1972 dollars. One LHC costs $9billion 2008 dollars. Tevatron was a bargain next to that at only $120million 1980 dollars.

Put into that sort of scale, with $19billion in 2014 cash, you could do any one of the following:

Build an entire city designed for 50000 inhabitants supplied entirely by renewable energy sources.

Build an entire archipelago of artificial islands.

Bury an Interstate highway under Boston.

Build 3 international-class airports.

Build two subway lines under an existing major city.

Replace 5 long-span highway bridges.

Buy 6 Human Genome Projects.

Replicate the Channel Tunnel.

Does that bring it into perspective?

Re: STEM Shortage Claims and Facebook's $19 Billion Acquisition of WhatsApp

#203

Idea I had a while back: Monster.com for anonymous interviews. Purge race, age and gender information from the interview process. Getting a broader range of candidates to the final interview would already be a huge step. I'm not even sure in-person or phone interviews are necessary or beneficial. I'm aware of a top philosophy dept. that does professor hiring completely be application materials. Why? They found applic…

Yeah but you can't have diverse teams if you hire from the same mold

Re: STEM Shortage Claims and Facebook's $19 Billion Acquisition of WhatsApp

#204

Can we talk about the other elephant in the room: that Facebook can afford the inflation-adjusted equivalent of the Manhattan project budget with a product that it does not charge its users to use?

Google can afford even more than that. Times have changed, and these tech juggernauts are essentially printing their own money with how invested the general public is into their products.

Re: STEM Shortage Claims and Facebook's $19 Billion Acquisition of WhatsApp

#205
post #7

Where is the problem? The risk was outsourced, so were the investments. When it looks like a worthwhile project, the knowledge get's in-sourced. Don't see the recruitment fail in this particular happening of things.

More to the point, these guys probably wouldn't have done anything interesting at all had they been hired by Facebook. They certainly wouldn't have had the freedom and the resources to develop something like WhatsApp. I interviewed with Google not too long ago and it was clear to me that Google was the place to go work if I wanted to get a paycheck without having any impact on anything at all.

Or have any free time, from the insidious nature of comfort perks they supply

Re: STEM Shortage Claims and Facebook's $19 Billion Acquisition of WhatsApp

#206
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the basis of your assertion? There are at least 250,000 H1B workers in the USA. Do you seem to suggest this is true across the board? In my experience in most 'good' companies (e.g. Texas Instruments that is discussed in the article), such exploitation doesn't occur, based on the anecdotal evidence that I've heard.

Look at the top 5 companies requesting H-1Bs between 2010 and 2012. All are outsourcing companies. http://abcnews.go.com/Business/top-10-companies-request-visa... These companies typically exploit their workers with lower pay and threats to send them home if they don't play ball. Or are employing people to offshore jobs. The "good" companies that use H-1Bs are a fairly small percentage of the number of visas issued.

One cannot complain about the 'bad' companies being 'unfair'. It is a consequence of globalization. If, say, Indian_Software_Company A can do the IT overhaul of US_Retailer B at a price point cheaper than US_Software_Company C, then in a non-protectionist world, nothing should prevent Indian_Software_Company A from getting the contract. I am not a software engineer, so I do not know if Indian_Software_Company A is cheaper and better than the other, but such a practice is consistent with modern trade.

Now, in the context of TI, which is a typical 'good company', complaining about H1B doesn't make much sense. In all likelihood, a H1B TI engineer is paid as much or more than a US citizen/permanent resident TI engineer. In fact demonstrating fair wages is a fundeamental requirement for H1B applications.

Unfortunately, there is a lot hypocrisy in the criticism of 'foreign workers' in public conversations in America. The same voices in favor of capitalism also want protectionism in labor. It is likely that this hypocrisy (or confusion) underlies the political disillusionment of the TI engineer's wife [1].

[1] http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0112/72185.html

Re: STEM Shortage Claims and Facebook's $19 Billion Acquisition of WhatsApp

#207
post #181
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because there are less lawyer than engineer. You can't outsource lawyer from different country.

Source? I'd be willing to bet there are just as many lawyers as engineers.

Different country has different law.

Re: STEM Shortage Claims and Facebook's $19 Billion Acquisition of WhatsApp

#208
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the top 5 companies requesting H-1Bs between 2010 and 2012. All are outsourcing companies. http://abcnews.go.com/Business/top-10-companies-request-visa... These companies typically exploit their workers with lower pay and threats to send them home if they don't play ball. Or are employing people to offshore jobs. The "good" companies that use H-1Bs are a fairly small percentage of the number of visas issued.

One cannot complain about the 'bad' companies being 'unfair'. It is a consequence of globalization. If, say, Indian_Software_Company A can do the IT overhaul of US_Retailer B at a price point cheaper than US_Software_Company C, then in a non-protectionist world, nothing should prevent Indian_Software_Company A from getting the contract. I am not a software engineer, so I do not know if Indian_Software_Company A is ch…

In a non-protectionist world there would be free movement of labor and so there would be nothing stopping say a US or European developer moving overseas to follow the work if that it what they desired. Sadly this is not the case so off-shoring is equally as protectionist which is where a lot of the criticism comes from.

Globalization as currently implemented simply moves work to where it is cheaper as protectionist immigration policies in most cases prevent skilled labor from following the jobs. That sadly is the reality of modern trade.

> In fact demonstrating fair wages is a fundamental > requirement for H1B applications.

The fact is that there are enough loopholes in this requirement to drive a truck through and enforcement is weak. And the companies that exploit this know that.

Re: STEM Shortage Claims and Facebook's $19 Billion Acquisition of WhatsApp

#209
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would argue that the number of people needed for older technology is finitely limited not that they are no longer needed. There may be demand for older technology, but the majority of new jobs won't be for older technology Obviously no-one is being hired to write x86 assembly. It's taught because it's relevant, important and timeless. > Why are companies apparently hiring younger people over older people who are…

>Obviously no-one is being hired to write x86 assembly. It's taught because it's relevant, important and timeless. Not everything is timeless. Not everything everyone specializes now will be timeless. Some knowledge will be useful always, but if there is not demand for the timeless positions, or demand shrinks rather than grows, then even if someone has timeless knowledge that may not actually be useful in them getti…

> You are asserting that [older] people have timeless knowledge making them more valuable employees than younger people without that timeless knowledge.

I never said that.

Re: STEM Shortage Claims and Facebook's $19 Billion Acquisition of WhatsApp

#210

Interesting article. Whenever an article like this pops up the usual chorus is, there is no skill shortage, just a shortage at the price the employer is willing to pay. Sadly I've seen myself as someone on the hiring side of the table fall into a few of these traps listed in the article. A newly minted Phd, is one type of person that I've found myself having trouble hiring. Same with an newly minted Masters. The reas…

As a PhD who tried to get a job outside my field of expertise I'm glad you mentioned your reluctance to hire them, as it was certainly a vibe I got. For any people hiring potential PhDs out there, I'd like to clarify (and generalize) our pros and cons. We probably don't really expect to be paid much more, unless the job is one that we are uniquely suited too. We more than make up for our lack of experience by being e…

There are jobs out there which justifiably require a PhD qualification, e.g. industry research labs, defense research labs, national research labs. I think new PhDs should try hard to seek these jobs rather than typical developer-type jobs that would not necessarily benefit from the skills one gained while working towards their dissertation. This is a difficult mandate to follow, but I think a useful one from a career-satisfaction perspective.

Edit: See 'meat-space' vs. 'net-space' comment below. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7373273

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